Want to Learn Something

Blunosepit · 12-22-2005, 09:49 AM

First of all, I don't want to sell it. I am the proud owner of a 1918 DWM. Serial number is 1771 E (I think) The E could actually be an L. ALL numbers match to include the clip. It has walnut grips. The grips have no border and they are checkered and in good condition. The toggle is square & knurled. Bluing is 70 to 80%. The bore is good. The straw finish is 50 to 60%. Rear sight is fixed V on toggle. The front sight is fixed on the barrel with a dovetail. The barrel length is 3" 7/8ths.
The right side of the chamber has the standard proofs shown in fig 15 (proofs) of your tech info. On the pistol grip frame forward appears the marking S. An. 336. I wonder about that marking?
The under side of the barrel has 889 and a 5 appears above those digits. On the right hand top side of the barrel, a horizontal bar with P 7 under and under that a stick eagle appears. Ideas about this mark?
On the top left side of the barrel, two marks appear. First and left, is a small stick eagle over the digit 6, followed by a larger stick eagle over the digit 8. These "stick eagles" appear to resemble the simson proofs fig 33 of your tech info. Comments on this mark?
There is a a mark resembling fig 14 of your tech info (proofs) on the left side of the forward toggle link.
The magazine is marked 1771 and a 2. also appears. Possibly #2 magazine? I guess #1 is lost then?

Right now, I think I have a real collectors item. Whatever you say, you are not going to hurt my feelings. Any ideas of my pistol's value are much appreciated. This pistol was my father's "credit card". It has spent a lot of time in various pawn shops. He ALWAYS went back and got it though. The sentimental value of this weapon far outweighs any monetary value.

Thank You
Wayne

Ron Smith · 12-22-2005, 10:03 AM

Hi Wayne,

Welcome to the forum. It sounds like you have a Simson rework.

Photos of all of the markings and full views of the sides and top would help us with difinitive information.

Ron

Blunosepit · 12-22-2005, 10:08 AM

I tried to take some digital pictures last night but you couldn't see excrement in them.....

policeluger · 12-22-2005, 10:23 AM

Welcome, and I am with you, never sell it, once you do, you'll never get it back. Sounds like a police rework "S."=Sschutzpolizei, "An." Aachen" , "335" weapom number, so municaipal police city of Aachen weapon 336.......hope this help....

Blunosepit · 12-22-2005, 10:38 AM

Forgive my ignorance & especially my German. What would Sschutzpolizei mean? I gather that "polizei" is Police. Would that mark have been made in WW2 possibly?

policeluger · 12-22-2005, 11:27 AM

It means "municipal police" , city cops

....marked, or more better to say "unit marked" prior to WW2, but most likly saw service in WW2...and I was mistaken, it is weapon 336, not perhaps Luger 336 in stock, but weapon #....listen this is all to confusing, just send me the gun, it would look nice in my collection, and since you did not sell it to me, you could visit it anytime")....hope this helps

Blunosepit · 12-22-2005, 11:29 AM

Love IT! Just hold yer breath till it gets there....... and on the serious side Thanks

Edward Tinker · 12-22-2005, 12:02 PM

Welcome to the forum Blunosepit, once your membership is approved, you will be able to see the rest of the forum!

Once that happens, I will move this to the new collectors area of the forum.

I also collect Weimar Era Police guns, so these are always interesting to me!

The 8,89 is probably not a 9, as that would be out of tolerance, a picture of it would be interesting. Being a 1918, it is possible...

I would be very interested in seeing the eagle 6 markings... (see below why

)

Ed

Blunosepit · 12-22-2005, 12:27 PM

My mistake Sir. I just looked at my notes and those faint number under the barrel are actually 883. Any ideas of the meaning?

Blunosepit · 12-22-2005, 12:40 PM

Thought you guys might enjoy a little family history about this item. As I have stated, this was my Dad's credit card. Turns out, it is a little more than that. One time (when it wasn't in the Pawn shop) and my father was away, my Aunt, my Mother, and my Grandmother were alone at home in East Texas. My Aunt's ex husband was attempting to break in the home to gain access to my Aunt. Well, my mother was attempting to load the Luger by dropping a round in from the top. As you know, the toggle action on a Luger can be very hard for a woman to operate. She never did get it loaded. In the meantime, my Grandmother took the perpetrator out with a baseball bat. The sheriff was called and the man was proclaimed to be "very beat up".

pipeman45 · 12-22-2005, 01:09 PM

Don't mess with Texas-women!

Edward Tinker · 12-22-2005, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Blunosepit
My mistake Sir. I just looked at my notes and those faint number under the barrel are actually 883. Any ideas of the meaning?

why, yes we do!

That is the land to land measurment, if it met standards (i.e. 8,80, 8,81, 8,82, etc., up to 8,85 if I remember correctly), then it was stamped with the appropriate size.

ed

Blunosepit · 12-22-2005, 02:16 PM

You guys are great. I am learning a lot. I have found out that Aachen is one of the westernmost cities in Germany. It is also the first major German city to fall after the D Day invasion. My dad CW4 was on a task force set to invade Japan in WW2. Then they dropped the bomb. He acquired this weapon stateside but I'm reasonably sure that it is a "captured" weapon. I may get a picture posted next week of something.

Blunosepit · 12-22-2005, 02:46 PM

Edward Tinker: I was hoping to take pictures of ALL the marks to include what look to be simson marks but I have not had much luck taking the pictures with my digital camera. I have not seen any Simson & Co marks on the weapon. Am I supposed to? I have never completely disassembled the weapon. I am almost afraid to. I have watched my father disassemble and reassemble it more than once But that was a very long time ago.
I would love to provide you with photos of those barrel marks. I noticed that some of the pictures on the site have the marks enhanced somehow. They appear white. Is there a way that I can do that temporarily and not tamper with the value of the weapon?

Edward Tinker · 12-22-2005, 03:54 PM

The Simson part is my 'tag-line', so if folks have a Simson, they contact me.

you can use grease pencil or better yet, white lacquer pencils, this comes right off. Some folks will suggest chalk, but it is abrasive and theorectilly could damage your metal...

Take the picutres in highest resolution, then crop down to what you want to see. Use plenty of lighting, and take tons of pictures (then several will come out ok, that is what I do!).

Ed

John Sabato · 12-22-2005, 04:19 PM

Let me add my welcome to the Lugeforum...

In addition to the advice given by Ed, make sure you are in "Close up" ; "Portrait" or "Macro" mode (whichever applies to your camera) to take really close up photos... Don't try to hold the camera closer than about 10-12 inches from what you are trying to capture. the use of a tripod or something to steady the camera other than your hands is also a good idea.

Don M · 12-22-2005, 05:29 PM

Blunosepit,

You may be interested to know that the unit mark for the Schutzpolizei of the Aachen district is apparently quite rare. I have a database of over 900 of these police unit marks and your is only the third.

I too am eager to see pictures.

Blunosepit · 12-28-2005, 08:46 AM

One picture is here

The Stick eagles with the 6 and the 8 on the upper left of barrel.

Next picture is here. The unit mark.

The right side of the barrel.

The DWM mark.

The serial on the clip.

A shot of the small stick eagle on the upper left barrel with the 6.

Blunosepit · 12-28-2005, 09:04 AM

Could not get the Left view of the weapon to load. Exceeded the max byte size...... Love to hear your comments. Anyone know about the mark on the right side of my barrel (pTv) ????? Is she a Simson? Values?

Don M · 12-28-2005, 03:58 PM

Wayne,

Thanks for the photos. If you have any photo editing software, you should be able to reduce the size of the left side shot so it will upload. I would be interested in seeing it to determine if there is/was a mag safety.

The PTV mark on the barrel stands for the Polizeischule fÃ?Â¼r Technik und Verkehr (Police School for Equipment and Transport) in Berlin. It wasn't really a school as we would think of one. It included the main Prussian police armory and the mark on the barrel indicates your gun was rebarreled and perhaps reworked at this armory. Others are much more knowledgeable about this than I.

I am also no expert on values so will let others help here.

12-22-2005, 11:27 AM	#6
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	It means "municipal police" , city cops....marked, or more better to say "unit marked" prior to WW2, but most likly saw service in WW2...and I was mistaken, it is weapon 336, not perhaps Luger 336 in stock, but weapon #....listen this is all to confusing, just send me the gun, it would look nice in my collection, and since you did not sell it to me, you could visit it anytime")....hope this helps

12-22-2005, 12:02 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	Welcome to the forum Blunosepit, once your membership is approved, you will be able to see the rest of the forum! Once that happens, I will move this to the new collectors area of the forum. I also collect Weimar Era Police guns, so these are always interesting to me! The 8,89 is probably not a 9, as that would be out of tolerance, a picture of it would be interesting. Being a 1918, it is possible... I would be very interested in seeing the eagle 6 markings... (see below why ) Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-22-2005, 01:09 PM	#11
pipeman45 User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 539 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Don't mess with Texas-women! __________________ Dave

12-22-2005, 03:54 PM	#15
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	The Simson part is my 'tag-line', so if folks have a Simson, they contact me. you can use grease pencil or better yet, white lacquer pencils, this comes right off. Some folks will suggest chalk, but it is abrasive and theorectilly could damage your metal... Take the picutres in highest resolution, then crop down to what you want to see. Use plenty of lighting, and take tons of pictures (then several will come out ok, that is what I do!). Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-22-2005, 04:19 PM	#16
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Let me add my welcome to the Lugeforum... In addition to the advice given by Ed, make sure you are in "Close up" ; "Portrait" or "Macro" mode (whichever applies to your camera) to take really close up photos... Don't try to hold the camera closer than about 10-12 inches from what you are trying to capture. the use of a tripod or something to steady the camera other than your hands is also a good idea. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-22-2005, 09:49 AM	#1
Blunosepit User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Antone Texas Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Want to Learn Something First of all, I don't want to sell it. I am the proud owner of a 1918 DWM. Serial number is 1771 E (I think) The E could actually be an L. ALL numbers match to include the clip. It has walnut grips. The grips have no border and they are checkered and in good condition. The toggle is square & knurled. Bluing is 70 to 80%. The bore is good. The straw finish is 50 to 60%. Rear sight is fixed V on toggle. The front sight is fixed on the barrel with a dovetail. The barrel length is 3" 7/8ths. The right side of the chamber has the standard proofs shown in fig 15 (proofs) of your tech info. On the pistol grip frame forward appears the marking S. An. 336. I wonder about that marking? The under side of the barrel has 889 and a 5 appears above those digits. On the right hand top side of the barrel, a horizontal bar with P 7 under and under that a stick eagle appears. Ideas about this mark? On the top left side of the barrel, two marks appear. First and left, is a small stick eagle over the digit 6, followed by a larger stick eagle over the digit 8. These "stick eagles" appear to resemble the simson proofs fig 33 of your tech info. Comments on this mark? There is a a mark resembling fig 14 of your tech info (proofs) on the left side of the forward toggle link. The magazine is marked 1771 and a 2. also appears. Possibly #2 magazine? I guess #1 is lost then? Right now, I think I have a real collectors item. Whatever you say, you are not going to hurt my feelings. Any ideas of my pistol's value are much appreciated. This pistol was my father's "credit card". It has spent a lot of time in various pawn shops. He ALWAYS went back and got it though. The sentimental value of this weapon far outweighs any monetary value. Thank You Wayne

12-22-2005, 10:03 AM	#2
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Hi Wayne, Welcome to the forum. It sounds like you have a Simson rework. Photos of all of the markings and full views of the sides and top would help us with difinitive information. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

12-22-2005, 10:08 AM	#3
Blunosepit User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Antone Texas Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I tried to take some digital pictures last night but you couldn't see excrement in them.....

12-22-2005, 10:23 AM	#4
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Welcome, and I am with you, never sell it, once you do, you'll never get it back. Sounds like a police rework "S."=Sschutzpolizei, "An." Aachen" , "335" weapom number, so municaipal police city of Aachen weapon 336.......hope this help....

12-22-2005, 10:38 AM	#5
Blunosepit User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Antone Texas Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Forgive my ignorance & especially my German. What would Sschutzpolizei mean? I gather that "polizei" is Police. Would that mark have been made in WW2 possibly?

12-22-2005, 11:29 AM	#7
Blunosepit User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Antone Texas Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Love IT! Just hold yer breath till it gets there....... and on the serious side Thanks

12-22-2005, 12:27 PM	#9
Blunosepit User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Antone Texas Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My mistake Sir. I just looked at my notes and those faint number under the barrel are actually 883. Any ideas of the meaning?

12-22-2005, 12:40 PM	#10
Blunosepit User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Antone Texas Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thought you guys might enjoy a little family history about this item. As I have stated, this was my Dad's credit card. Turns out, it is a little more than that. One time (when it wasn't in the Pawn shop) and my father was away, my Aunt, my Mother, and my Grandmother were alone at home in East Texas. My Aunt's ex husband was attempting to break in the home to gain access to my Aunt. Well, my mother was attempting to load the Luger by dropping a round in from the top. As you know, the toggle action on a Luger can be very hard for a woman to operate. She never did get it loaded. In the meantime, my Grandmother took the perpetrator out with a baseball bat. The sheriff was called and the man was proclaimed to be "very beat up".

12-22-2005, 02:16 PM	#13
Blunosepit User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Antone Texas Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	You guys are great. I am learning a lot. I have found out that Aachen is one of the westernmost cities in Germany. It is also the first major German city to fall after the D Day invasion. My dad CW4 was on a task force set to invade Japan in WW2. Then they dropped the bomb. He acquired this weapon stateside but I'm reasonably sure that it is a "captured" weapon. I may get a picture posted next week of something.

12-22-2005, 02:46 PM	#14
Blunosepit User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Antone Texas Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Edward Tinker: I was hoping to take pictures of ALL the marks to include what look to be simson marks but I have not had much luck taking the pictures with my digital camera. I have not seen any Simson & Co marks on the weapon. Am I supposed to? I have never completely disassembled the weapon. I am almost afraid to. I have watched my father disassemble and reassemble it more than once But that was a very long time ago. I would love to provide you with photos of those barrel marks. I noticed that some of the pictures on the site have the marks enhanced somehow. They appear white. Is there a way that I can do that temporarily and not tamper with the value of the weapon?

12-22-2005, 05:29 PM	#17
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Blunosepit, You may be interested to know that the unit mark for the Schutzpolizei of the Aachen district is apparently quite rare. I have a database of over 900 of these police unit marks and your is only the third. I too am eager to see pictures. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com

12-28-2005, 08:46 AM	#18
Blunosepit User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Antone Texas Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	One picture is here The Stick eagles with the 6 and the 8 on the upper left of barrel. Next picture is here. The unit mark. The right side of the barrel. The DWM mark. The serial on the clip. A shot of the small stick eagle on the upper left barrel with the 6.

12-28-2005, 09:04 AM	#19
Blunosepit User Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: San Antone Texas Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Could not get the Left view of the weapon to load. Exceeded the max byte size...... Love to hear your comments. Anyone know about the mark on the right side of my barrel (pTv) ????? Is she a Simson? Values?

12-28-2005, 03:58 PM	#20
Don M Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,429 Thanks: 67 Thanked 292 Times in 191 Posts	Wayne, Thanks for the photos. If you have any photo editing software, you should be able to reduce the size of the left side shot so it will upload. I would be interested in seeing it to determine if there is/was a mag safety. The PTV mark on the barrel stands for the Polizeischule fÃ?Â¼r Technik und Verkehr (Police School for Equipment and Transport) in Berlin. It wasn't really a school as we would think of one. It included the main Prussian police armory and the mark on the barrel indicates your gun was rebarreled and perhaps reworked at this armory. Others are much more knowledgeable about this than I. I am also no expert on values so will let others help here. __________________ Regards, Don donmaus1@aol.com Author of History Writ in Steel: German Police Markings 1900-1936 http://www.historywritinsteel.com