Bore Grading? (a stupid question)

Mark McMorrow · 07-15-2001, 08:16 AM

Hi All,

I'm a pretty fair hand at overall gun grading (after being in it for 25 or so years) but over the past few years I've noticed the trend of applying an apparently separate criteria for grading the bore (e.g. gun excellent, bore fair). I always thought that the bore condition affected the overall grade of the gun, but then again, maybe I missed that class? Assuming this is the case, what are the bore grading criteria rules of thumb? Thanks! ~

Mark

07-15-2001, 12:00 PM

Generally, bore condition is not considered on antique firearms. The weapons have pretty well ceased being shooters so bore condition is not as important.

A nice bore is nice however and it does add to the value of the weapon. Usually, a pistol with an excellent or mint bore will also be in the same condition outside.

There are far more 90% pistols with only good bores.

This is my take on bore grades.

A poor bore means you can see through the barrel, that's about it. It is dark, pitted and has major sections of rifling compeletly worn away.

A fair bore is the same with more rifling.

A good bore means you can still see all the rifling, it is still dark and pitted.

A very good bore has rifling from one end of the barrel to the other, is not very dark and has pitting in about 30-50% of the bore.

An excellent bore has at the least strong rifling to very sharp rifling and is fairly bright to very bright The bore may or may not appear frosted in areas or all the way through. (very lightly pitted)

Mint means you can't tell the pistol has been shot.

This bore condition problem is why the rebuilt, reblued Eastbloc imports will sell for the prices they do....they have excellent to new barrels and that is why the average gun-show Luger buyer will pick an import over an 80% original everytime. Even if the original is $100-$150 cheaper than the import.

Mike

Mark McMorrow · 07-15-2001, 12:47 PM

Thanks Mike. Got it. Interestingly, the S/42 (1937 date) I own is about 95% on the outside, but I would rate the bore only vg due to the fact that the vet I acquired it from never cleaned the bore after taking it as a war trophy. I did get a capture affidavit from the vet as provenance on this Luger, so I guess that makes up for the vg bore, huh?

Mark

07-15-2001, 01:05 PM

The bore on my 1914 Luger has clean metal lands with some scoring and a few lines of pits on each one. The groves of the rifling are very dark and continuously pitted. Is there a safety issue should someone shoot this handgun. And can repeated scrubbings with a oiled brass 9mm bore brush do more harm than good? I am mainly asking so I know that it is in shootable condition and not do any well intentioned damage. Thought I'd ask the experts while the subject was mentioned.

Marvin · 07-15-2001, 03:19 PM

Basil,

The darkened bore is probably from the repeated firing of corrosive ammo and not cleaning it properly. The pitting should not be a problem with firing the pistol.

Many of the Turkish Mod. 98 rifles that are on the market today have this same problem except the bores may be much worse than yours. The common question about them is the same as yours. My suggestion is to clean the bore well with Hoppes or an equivilent solvent, let it soak for a while, clean with the brush and soaked patches, and follow-up with dry patches. You probably will continue to get staining on the dry patches so you will have to stop at some point.

The best way to get rid of the darkening of the bore is to shoot the pistol. The FMJ of the bullets will continue to polish the bore and tent have a cleaning effect on it. Clean the bore as soon as possible after firing the pistol, and if possible, while the bore is still warm. The bore will never shine like new, but eventually, you will lighten it up to an acceptable level. Don't worry about shooting the pistol, jsut shoot, enjoy and clean.

Marvin

Johnny Peppers · 07-15-2001, 03:59 PM

Even rough bores will fire jacketed ammo with better than expected accuracy, but cast bullets in a rough bore are a waste of time.

HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr · 07-15-2001, 05:37 PM

My girlfrinds pistol (Anneli) is a S/42 1936.

There is no visiable height differnace betwen grove and land.

Still the gun shoot within 1,5-2" at 25 yards and is countinuisly used in target competition.

Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

Mark M. · 07-15-2001, 09:07 PM

Gruss Gott,Mark!

Please keep asking these "stupid" questions.That way,I don't have to do it and I still get the needed answers. Thanks for your help!

Tschuss! Mark M.

07-15-2001, 08:16 AM	#1
Mark McMorrow User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: NE USA Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Bore Grading? (a stupid question) Hi All, I'm a pretty fair hand at overall gun grading (after being in it for 25 or so years) but over the past few years I've noticed the trend of applying an apparently separate criteria for grading the bore (e.g. gun excellent, bore fair). I always thought that the bore condition affected the overall grade of the gun, but then again, maybe I missed that class? Assuming this is the case, what are the bore grading criteria rules of thumb? Thanks! ~ Mark

07-15-2001, 12:00 PM	#2
MK Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Bore Grading? (a stupid question) Generally, bore condition is not considered on antique firearms. The weapons have pretty well ceased being shooters so bore condition is not as important. A nice bore is nice however and it does add to the value of the weapon. Usually, a pistol with an excellent or mint bore will also be in the same condition outside. There are far more 90% pistols with only good bores. This is my take on bore grades. A poor bore means you can see through the barrel, that's about it. It is dark, pitted and has major sections of rifling compeletly worn away. A fair bore is the same with more rifling. A good bore means you can still see all the rifling, it is still dark and pitted. A very good bore has rifling from one end of the barrel to the other, is not very dark and has pitting in about 30-50% of the bore. An excellent bore has at the least strong rifling to very sharp rifling and is fairly bright to very bright The bore may or may not appear frosted in areas or all the way through. (very lightly pitted) Mint means you can't tell the pistol has been shot. This bore condition problem is why the rebuilt, reblued Eastbloc imports will sell for the prices they do....they have excellent to new barrels and that is why the average gun-show Luger buyer will pick an import over an 80% original everytime. Even if the original is $100-$150 cheaper than the import. Mike

07-15-2001, 12:47 PM	#3
Mark McMorrow User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: NE USA Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Bore Grading? (a stupid question) Thanks Mike. Got it. Interestingly, the S/42 (1937 date) I own is about 95% on the outside, but I would rate the bore only vg due to the fact that the vet I acquired it from never cleaned the bore after taking it as a war trophy. I did get a capture affidavit from the vet as provenance on this Luger, so I guess that makes up for the vg bore, huh? Mark

07-15-2001, 01:05 PM	#4
Basil_O Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Bore Condition? (another stupid question) The bore on my 1914 Luger has clean metal lands with some scoring and a few lines of pits on each one. The groves of the rifling are very dark and continuously pitted. Is there a safety issue should someone shoot this handgun. And can repeated scrubbings with a oiled brass 9mm bore brush do more harm than good? I am mainly asking so I know that it is in shootable condition and not do any well intentioned damage. Thought I'd ask the experts while the subject was mentioned.

07-15-2001, 03:19 PM	#5
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Bore Condition? (another stupid question) Basil, The darkened bore is probably from the repeated firing of corrosive ammo and not cleaning it properly. The pitting should not be a problem with firing the pistol. Many of the Turkish Mod. 98 rifles that are on the market today have this same problem except the bores may be much worse than yours. The common question about them is the same as yours. My suggestion is to clean the bore well with Hoppes or an equivilent solvent, let it soak for a while, clean with the brush and soaked patches, and follow-up with dry patches. You probably will continue to get staining on the dry patches so you will have to stop at some point. The best way to get rid of the darkening of the bore is to shoot the pistol. The FMJ of the bullets will continue to polish the bore and tent have a cleaning effect on it. Clean the bore as soon as possible after firing the pistol, and if possible, while the bore is still warm. The bore will never shine like new, but eventually, you will lighten it up to an acceptable level. Don't worry about shooting the pistol, jsut shoot, enjoy and clean. Marvin

07-15-2001, 03:59 PM	#6
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Bore Condition? (another stupid question) Even rough bores will fire jacketed ammo with better than expected accuracy, but cast bullets in a rough bore are a waste of time.

07-15-2001, 05:37 PM	#7
HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 282 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Bore Condition? (another stupid question) My girlfrinds pistol (Anneli) is a S/42 1936. There is no visiable height differnace betwen grove and land. Still the gun shoot within 1,5-2" at 25 yards and is countinuisly used in target competition. Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

07-15-2001, 09:07 PM	#8
Mark M. User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 72 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Bore Grading? (a stupid question) Gruss Gott,Mark! Please keep asking these "stupid" questions.That way,I don't have to do it and I still get the needed answers. Thanks for your help! Tschuss! Mark M.