1914 Erfurt Arty...

Pete Ebbink · 08-12-2005, 12:43 PM

http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...oducts_id=2706

the gunman · 08-12-2005, 04:39 PM

Hell of a price he wants for it....

Big Norm · 08-19-2005, 01:40 AM

I'M RICH!!!! I"M RICH!!!! I'VE GOT TWO OF THEM!!!WATCH OUT BILL GATES. I'M CATCH UP TO YOU!!!
Big Norm

Edward Tinker · 08-19-2005, 08:57 AM

in hawaii we used to call it land rich, money poor

pipeman45 · 08-19-2005, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Norm
I'M RICH!!!! I"M RICH!!!! I'VE GOT TWO OF THEM!!!WATCH OUT BILL GATES. I'M CATCH UP TO YOU!!!
Big Norm

YEA ,YEA. Like you will ever part with them.

Big Norm · 08-21-2005, 04:47 PM

First Ed Tinker hints that he is money poor. HA! HA! HA!

Then Pippy says I will never part with my Erfurt artilleries. HEE! HEE! He's right. As the stock market advisors on TV would say, "this is just a base forming, buy more".

But as Big Norm would say... this scares me. Newbies and small collectors can't afford to come in. I remember when bowling and racquetball were popular sports. The leagues pushed out the bad and the occasional players. Then these good sports died out. Speculators are now buying Lugers and turning around and selling them for a $1,000+ more in a short period of time. Counterfeiters are now stepping in and reproducing (?) one-of-a-kind, rare and unusual lugers and catching the unsuspecting. They have done this all along of course, but it now seems to be becoming more wide spread and brazen. One highly popular dealer has ruined his previously good name and now he even has accomplices (it is rumored) in different states. I guess it is really popular and profitable to cheat people. How many fake Model-1914 chamber dated 1918 navy Lugers has he put out? I can think of two. Some innocent people now have them and will be trying to sell them some day.

I think that it was Peter Lynch who said, "Watch out when your barber starts telling you what stocks to buy.". Not that barbers are dumb (I might end up bald and my ears cut off after my next haircut). But this was said just to indicate that everyones becoming an over night expert. Go slow people and study what you are buying.
Big Norm

drm2m · 08-22-2005, 12:56 AM

Big Norm, .... the last sentence,.. in your last paragraph......you just said a "mouth full"!
David

Edward Tinker · 08-22-2005, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Big Norm
First Ed Tinker hints that he is money poor. HA! HA! HA!

Big Norm

he says this because he is "retireded" and so doesn't have those 'big" bucks rolling in!

OldFalGuy · 08-22-2005, 08:43 PM

I check in with SImpson periodically looking for the "one" artillery I wish to buy. THis one certainly looked deserving of another peek- but- I for some inane reason have myy heart set on a real nice one WITH a matching stock. I fear I will end up never owning one at all, with or without a stock, for this very reason. I don't even have a luger of anykind today. Same goes for "A" Navy. Nice piece for sure.

Big Norm · 08-23-2005, 02:02 AM

OldFalGuy,
I got an Erfurt artillery with matching mag and stock about two or three years ago (time flies when your having fun). The guy wanted $1900 and I talked him down to $1800. I was shaking like a leaf in a tornado, before, during and after the sale. Ralph Shattuck was standing nearby, (maybe waiting for me to pass on the gun so that he could buy it?). I still shake a bit everytime I think about it. What a find!

Now comes the ultimate - finding a dated 1914 holster, cup and strapes for it (the leather). I found a holster and the magazine pouch (no straps or cup). But the darn holster is so rare and in such good shape with the markings on the inside of the flap on the raw leather, that I don't dare use it. So I keep searching. But, the hunt is what collecting is all about.

I also have a 1915, 1917 and a 1918 artillery with matching mags and stocks. So far, I have found the date matching, holster leather for the '15 and the '17. I believe that the 1915 artillery Luger gun itself is actually rarer than the Erfurt artillery. The Erfurt artillery Luger gun itself was only made for one year so that makes it more interesting. The 1915 and 1916 holster leather are pretty common. Finding a 1914 and a 1918 dated artillery holster leather rig is a tough find. I have found "put-togethers"- but never the original leather rigs of those two dates.

The 1914 DWM artillery Luger is very rare, so finding one with a matching mag is tough. While two of the three that I have have matching mags, I don't even dream about finding one with a matching stock. I have no explaination as to why I have never found a 1916 artillery with matching mag and stock. Lazy I guess. But I have the date matching leather holster rigs just waiting in case I do.

Bragging is good.
Big Norm

MauserLugers · 08-23-2005, 12:34 PM

Hi Norm,
You just have to be lucky to find them....... and persistant. A guy called me a couple of years ago and mentioned he had talked to a guy back east who had a complete 1915 Artillery Rig and he thought I might want to call him. I did and this guy had this rig for a long time and was a Winchester collector. It was in 98% condition, unit marked on the back grip strap, had a matching magazine, matching stock, holster, straps, 2 mag pouch, 1st issue snail drum with dust cover and machine gun adaptor, and snail drum loading tool with it. He had traded for it about 20 years ealier and had decided it was time to get rid of some of his stuff. When I heard what he had I was pretty excited and agreed to purchase it right then. No hesitation on that one. Sometimes you just gotta be Lucky. --- Bill

Big Norm · 08-24-2005, 01:59 AM

MauserLuger,
my hats off to you my friend, you clearly beat me with you tremendous find. What is the date on the holster? On my 1915 rig, I found a 1915 holster rig for it and, like you, I have some other undated stuff that I can put on it. My search for holsters is relatively recent. For most of my collecting career, I was happy just finding a Luger. Then my search advanced to finding a Luger with matching mags. Then I advanced to finding holsters for my Lugers. On artlleries, I want the manufacturers date to match the guns chamber date. But remember, I regard myself as a collector and not a dealer. So I know that the manufactures date does not have to match the guns chamber date.

My kick in the pants was on the second artillery (and P-08) that ever I bought. This dealer had an Erfurt rig for sale for $1600. I only had $1000 with me. So I only took the Erfurt artillery. It was a beautiful artillery but someone had left it in a damp environment and, while it didn't have any pitting, it did have light freckling rust over 100% of the outside surface. I cleaned the freckling rust off but I now had an artillery with zero bluing. It had a magnificent bore though. Some other lucky soul got the holster rig.

But, in those days, a $1000 was a lot of money for an artillery and I didn't know of the value of an original artillery holster. I had some "expert (?)" friends that looked over the gun. But I now know that they weren't really experts and that they only knew a little more than me. Even after 15 years of collecting with most of those years looking for artilleries, I still don't regard myself as an expert. There are just too many people around, especially on this and Jan Stills forum, who can run circles around me.
Big Norm

MauserLugers · 08-24-2005, 07:08 PM

The date is hard to read but it appears to be 1915 as best I can tell. -- Bill

Pete Ebbink · 08-24-2005, 09:57 PM

A couple of 1914 DErfurty Artrys @ FGS...

http://www.fgsinc.8m.com/photo4.html

Big Norm · 08-25-2005, 04:47 AM

Pete,
a little off topic, but there is a nice commercial 1906 navy for sale at FGS. Not a bad price at $4200. If I already didn't have two, I would jump on it.
Big Norm

Pete Ebbink · 08-25-2005, 07:20 PM

Hi Norm,

That one caught my eye...but I am hopeflul an honest Swiss Navy with a 7.65 barrel and Cross/Sunburst added to the chamber crosses my path one day...

A question about the M1906 commerical Navy. Is the fact that it is "1st. Issue Altered" correct and proper...???

Big Norm · 08-26-2005, 01:53 AM

Pete,
what are the Swiss doing with a navy? It seems like they would have a hard time floating a boat up their huge mountains. There might be a risk of running over a skier or two. (Hee! Hee!) I guess that when a Swiss boat sinks, the Lugers might get lost in a snow bank. (Get it... snow bank - Swiss bank. Haw! Haw!) Next you'll tell us that the Swiss have submarines patroling their defense caves. Watchout for a one of a kind Swiss naval 'K' date being sold by some guy in Minnesota. (Yuk! Yuk!) They have 'Y' proof marks to show that they were test shot during an explosive, high pitched yodel. Oh this is terrible!

Big Norm

pipeman45 · 08-27-2005, 02:37 AM

Big Norm. I don't know what your drinking, but will you pass that bottle over this way?

Big Norm · 08-27-2005, 05:19 PM

pipeman45,
I don't think that I'll drink that stuff again. I just read my above jokes to Pete and I think the drinking stuff made me go goofy. As soon as I finish those last 10 bottles I am going to quit. But I will admit that it was late at night and I was laughing myself silly writing that post.

But I have to admit that I can't think of a reason that a land locked, mountainous country like Switzerland would need a navy.

Big Norm

Pete Ebbink · 08-27-2005, 05:26 PM

Hi Norm,

I was not implying the Swiss had a navy and used Navy lugers.

As shooters in CH, folks could buy guns and have them imported into CH for use at shooting ranges. Before such a non-Swiss gun was used, it was inspected and proofed and could have had a Swiss Cross/Sunburst added to the chamber. I would also assume the 9 mm barrel would be changed out to 7,65 cal...as that was the round used in CH.

I know a few Swiss Navy lugers have surfaced in the USA, but considering the dealer invovled, I would be be suspicious. Nevertheless, maybe a few Navy and even LP-08 lugers made their way honestly to CH and were so stamped/modified.

Wishful thinking on my part...as some of my CH friends report no such lugers cited...

08-12-2005, 12:43 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	1914 Erfurt Arty... http://www.simpsonltd.com/product_in...oducts_id=2706

08-19-2005, 08:57 AM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	in hawaii we used to call it land rich, money poor __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-27-2005, 02:37 AM	#18
pipeman45 User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 539 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Big Norm. I don't know what your drinking, but will you pass that bottle over this way? __________________ Dave

08-12-2005, 04:39 PM	#2
the gunman User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Leland NC 28451 Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 1 Thanked 13 Times in 12 Posts	Hell of a price he wants for it....

08-19-2005, 01:40 AM	#3
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	I'M RICH!!!! I"M RICH!!!! I'VE GOT TWO OF THEM!!!WATCH OUT BILL GATES. I'M CATCH UP TO YOU!!! Big Norm

08-21-2005, 04:47 PM	#6
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	First Ed Tinker hints that he is money poor. HA! HA! HA! Then Pippy says I will never part with my Erfurt artilleries. HEE! HEE! He's right. As the stock market advisors on TV would say, "this is just a base forming, buy more". But as Big Norm would say... this scares me. Newbies and small collectors can't afford to come in. I remember when bowling and racquetball were popular sports. The leagues pushed out the bad and the occasional players. Then these good sports died out. Speculators are now buying Lugers and turning around and selling them for a $1,000+ more in a short period of time. Counterfeiters are now stepping in and reproducing (?) one-of-a-kind, rare and unusual lugers and catching the unsuspecting. They have done this all along of course, but it now seems to be becoming more wide spread and brazen. One highly popular dealer has ruined his previously good name and now he even has accomplices (it is rumored) in different states. I guess it is really popular and profitable to cheat people. How many fake Model-1914 chamber dated 1918 navy Lugers has he put out? I can think of two. Some innocent people now have them and will be trying to sell them some day. I think that it was Peter Lynch who said, "Watch out when your barber starts telling you what stocks to buy.". Not that barbers are dumb (I might end up bald and my ears cut off after my next haircut). But this was said just to indicate that everyones becoming an over night expert. Go slow people and study what you are buying. Big Norm

08-22-2005, 12:56 AM	#7
drm2m User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Big Norm, .... the last sentence,.. in your last paragraph......you just said a "mouth full"! David

08-22-2005, 08:43 PM	#9
OldFalGuy User Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I check in with SImpson periodically looking for the "one" artillery I wish to buy. THis one certainly looked deserving of another peek- but- I for some inane reason have myy heart set on a real nice one WITH a matching stock. I fear I will end up never owning one at all, with or without a stock, for this very reason. I don't even have a luger of anykind today. Same goes for "A" Navy. Nice piece for sure.

08-23-2005, 02:02 AM	#10
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	OldFalGuy, I got an Erfurt artillery with matching mag and stock about two or three years ago (time flies when your having fun). The guy wanted $1900 and I talked him down to $1800. I was shaking like a leaf in a tornado, before, during and after the sale. Ralph Shattuck was standing nearby, (maybe waiting for me to pass on the gun so that he could buy it?). I still shake a bit everytime I think about it. What a find! Now comes the ultimate - finding a dated 1914 holster, cup and strapes for it (the leather). I found a holster and the magazine pouch (no straps or cup). But the darn holster is so rare and in such good shape with the markings on the inside of the flap on the raw leather, that I don't dare use it. So I keep searching. But, the hunt is what collecting is all about. I also have a 1915, 1917 and a 1918 artillery with matching mags and stocks. So far, I have found the date matching, holster leather for the '15 and the '17. I believe that the 1915 artillery Luger gun itself is actually rarer than the Erfurt artillery. The Erfurt artillery Luger gun itself was only made for one year so that makes it more interesting. The 1915 and 1916 holster leather are pretty common. Finding a 1914 and a 1918 dated artillery holster leather rig is a tough find. I have found "put-togethers"- but never the original leather rigs of those two dates. The 1914 DWM artillery Luger is very rare, so finding one with a matching mag is tough. While two of the three that I have have matching mags, I don't even dream about finding one with a matching stock. I have no explaination as to why I have never found a 1916 artillery with matching mag and stock. Lazy I guess. But I have the date matching leather holster rigs just waiting in case I do. Bragging is good. Big Norm

08-23-2005, 12:34 PM	#11
MauserLugers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Philipsburg, Montana 59858 Posts: 250 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 1 Post	Hi Norm, You just have to be lucky to find them....... and persistant. A guy called me a couple of years ago and mentioned he had talked to a guy back east who had a complete 1915 Artillery Rig and he thought I might want to call him. I did and this guy had this rig for a long time and was a Winchester collector. It was in 98% condition, unit marked on the back grip strap, had a matching magazine, matching stock, holster, straps, 2 mag pouch, 1st issue snail drum with dust cover and machine gun adaptor, and snail drum loading tool with it. He had traded for it about 20 years ealier and had decided it was time to get rid of some of his stuff. When I heard what he had I was pretty excited and agreed to purchase it right then. No hesitation on that one. Sometimes you just gotta be Lucky. --- Bill

08-24-2005, 01:59 AM	#12
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	MauserLuger, my hats off to you my friend, you clearly beat me with you tremendous find. What is the date on the holster? On my 1915 rig, I found a 1915 holster rig for it and, like you, I have some other undated stuff that I can put on it. My search for holsters is relatively recent. For most of my collecting career, I was happy just finding a Luger. Then my search advanced to finding a Luger with matching mags. Then I advanced to finding holsters for my Lugers. On artlleries, I want the manufacturers date to match the guns chamber date. But remember, I regard myself as a collector and not a dealer. So I know that the manufactures date does not have to match the guns chamber date. My kick in the pants was on the second artillery (and P-08) that ever I bought. This dealer had an Erfurt rig for sale for $1600. I only had $1000 with me. So I only took the Erfurt artillery. It was a beautiful artillery but someone had left it in a damp environment and, while it didn't have any pitting, it did have light freckling rust over 100% of the outside surface. I cleaned the freckling rust off but I now had an artillery with zero bluing. It had a magnificent bore though. Some other lucky soul got the holster rig. But, in those days, a $1000 was a lot of money for an artillery and I didn't know of the value of an original artillery holster. I had some "expert (?)" friends that looked over the gun. But I now know that they weren't really experts and that they only knew a little more than me. Even after 15 years of collecting with most of those years looking for artilleries, I still don't regard myself as an expert. There are just too many people around, especially on this and Jan Stills forum, who can run circles around me. Big Norm

08-24-2005, 07:08 PM	#13
MauserLugers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Philipsburg, Montana 59858 Posts: 250 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 1 Post	The date is hard to read but it appears to be 1915 as best I can tell. -- Bill

08-24-2005, 09:57 PM	#14
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	A couple of 1914 DErfurty Artrys @ FGS... http://www.fgsinc.8m.com/photo4.html

08-25-2005, 04:47 AM	#15
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Pete, a little off topic, but there is a nice commercial 1906 navy for sale at FGS. Not a bad price at $4200. If I already didn't have two, I would jump on it. Big Norm

08-25-2005, 07:20 PM	#16
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Norm, That one caught my eye...but I am hopeflul an honest Swiss Navy with a 7.65 barrel and Cross/Sunburst added to the chamber crosses my path one day... A question about the M1906 commerical Navy. Is the fact that it is "1st. Issue Altered" correct and proper...???

08-26-2005, 01:53 AM	#17
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Pete, what are the Swiss doing with a navy? It seems like they would have a hard time floating a boat up their huge mountains. There might be a risk of running over a skier or two. (Hee! Hee!) I guess that when a Swiss boat sinks, the Lugers might get lost in a snow bank. (Get it... snow bank - Swiss bank. Haw! Haw!) Next you'll tell us that the Swiss have submarines patroling their defense caves. Watchout for a one of a kind Swiss naval 'K' date being sold by some guy in Minnesota. (Yuk! Yuk!) They have 'Y' proof marks to show that they were test shot during an explosive, high pitched yodel. Oh this is terrible! Big Norm

08-27-2005, 05:19 PM	#19
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	pipeman45, I don't think that I'll drink that stuff again. I just read my above jokes to Pete and I think the drinking stuff made me go goofy. As soon as I finish those last 10 bottles I am going to quit. But I will admit that it was late at night and I was laughing myself silly writing that post. But I have to admit that I can't think of a reason that a land locked, mountainous country like Switzerland would need a navy. Big Norm

08-27-2005, 05:26 PM	#20
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Norm, I was not implying the Swiss had a navy and used Navy lugers. As shooters in CH, folks could buy guns and have them imported into CH for use at shooting ranges. Before such a non-Swiss gun was used, it was inspected and proofed and could have had a Swiss Cross/Sunburst added to the chamber. I would also assume the 9 mm barrel would be changed out to 7,65 cal...as that was the round used in CH. I know a few Swiss Navy lugers have surfaced in the USA, but considering the dealer invovled, I would be be suspicious. Nevertheless, maybe a few Navy and even LP-08 lugers made their way honestly to CH and were so stamped/modified. Wishful thinking on my part...as some of my CH friends report no such lugers cited...