1916 Erfurt question...

Dwight Gruber · 06-18-2005, 04:50 PM

Walt,

The term "arsenal refinish" gets thrown around pretty casually, and there is no single, useful meaning for the generality.

Lugers were reworked--very often had parts replaced, sometimes were partly or completely refinished--by Simson and Krieghoff. Sometimes reworking was done by independent gunsmith shops--Von Nordheim (VoNo) and Frankenschloss come to mind, there may be others (Anschutz, e.g.).

Lugers were also stored, maintained, and repaired at Heeres Zeugamter (Army Weapons Depots). It is not clear to me where Police Lugers were modified, although many of them were rebarrelled at the Berlin police armory.

But, there were no anonymous "armories" to "refinish" Lugers; there is almost always evidence of the source of the work. Sometimes it is inspector stamps on a replacement part, Eagle/6 in the case of Simson, or an eagle over HZA stamp in the case of the Heeres Zeugamter. Berlin Armory barrrels are stamped with some combinaton of TP/eagle (this is often referred to as the mark of the Technical Police). German liability law required that reworked weapons having major changes to frame, receiver, or breechblock bear the identification of the party responsible for the work, hence the VoNo and Frankenschloss stamps, Simson toggles, and rear-frame Krieghoff stamps. Recently there has come to light evidence which supports the theory that Kl chamber stamp Lugers are the rework identification of Werkstatt Klett.

The above information does not apply to Swiss Lugers, whose refinishing is a separate subject unto itself. Nor does it apply to East German, Russian, Dutch, or Finnish practice.

Essentially, any time someone claims that a Luger has been "arsenal refinished", without any of the supporting evidence in steel, it is a fantasy excuse for the gun being refinished by an unknown technician at an indeterminate time. This is doubly true if it is an explanation for strawed parts being blued.

--Dwight

06-18-2005, 04:50 PM	#8
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Walt, The term "arsenal refinish" gets thrown around pretty casually, and there is no single, useful meaning for the generality. Lugers were reworked--very often had parts replaced, sometimes were partly or completely refinished--by Simson and Krieghoff. Sometimes reworking was done by independent gunsmith shops--Von Nordheim (VoNo) and Frankenschloss come to mind, there may be others (Anschutz, e.g.). Lugers were also stored, maintained, and repaired at Heeres Zeugamter (Army Weapons Depots). It is not clear to me where Police Lugers were modified, although many of them were rebarrelled at the Berlin police armory. But, there were no anonymous "armories" to "refinish" Lugers; there is almost always evidence of the source of the work. Sometimes it is inspector stamps on a replacement part, Eagle/6 in the case of Simson, or an eagle over HZA stamp in the case of the Heeres Zeugamter. Berlin Armory barrrels are stamped with some combinaton of TP/eagle (this is often referred to as the mark of the Technical Police). German liability law required that reworked weapons having major changes to frame, receiver, or breechblock bear the identification of the party responsible for the work, hence the VoNo and Frankenschloss stamps, Simson toggles, and rear-frame Krieghoff stamps. Recently there has come to light evidence which supports the theory that Kl chamber stamp Lugers are the rework identification of Werkstatt Klett. The above information does not apply to Swiss Lugers, whose refinishing is a separate subject unto itself. Nor does it apply to East German, Russian, Dutch, or Finnish practice. Essentially, any time someone claims that a Luger has been "arsenal refinished", without any of the supporting evidence in steel, it is a fantasy excuse for the gun being refinished by an unknown technician at an indeterminate time. This is doubly true if it is an explanation for strawed parts being blued. --Dwight