Presentation Case and Long Term Storage

Thor · 06-22-2001, 10:10 PM

I know Dok is making some terrific presentation cases and I bet Rick K is pumped about getting the first two off the line (are they serialized?) Not a bad idea! I have had a very puzzling question that keeps biting at me everytime we talk about them! IS long term storage a problem in VELVET or FELT lined cases. I know Ralph keeps his BABY (the true 32 ACP very small baby) in a very small green lined presentation case permanantly and that tells me that in the conditions in his vault, it must be okay! What about a plastic type liner that could be placed in the case just in the depression where the gun lies during storage? Any ideas from you Long term collectors? I would really appreciate your thoughts and experiences? Thanks!! Thor

06-22-2001, 11:11 PM

I don't know about gun cases, but car guys (me among them) shy away from plastic anything (car covers, floor mats, etc) because of the possibility of condensation on the bottom side of the plastic. Ad.

BILL · 06-23-2001, 01:48 AM

I have a 1906 commercial that has been in a velvet lined presentation case for over 30 years. There were no synthetic materials used in the construction of the case. The finish of the pistol is excellent and shows no evidence of having been in a case of any kind. I am of the belief that many 'presentation grade' pistols are kept in their original casings for the entire duration. With regard to polyvinyl products, there was a coin collector I knew who bought a new line of plastic envelopes for his coins and within a year the coins became mottled.

Luke · 06-23-2001, 05:07 AM

I have been involved in woodworking pretty heavily for some time and have built a number of jewelry boxes. As a result, I have done considerable reading about the subject, and some writers strongly recommend not using any artificial material in them, claim it can tarnish the jewelry over time. All of my boxes are wood combinations.

I am in the process of designing presentation cases for the Luger, and don't plan to use anything but wood and brass hinges. There is a certain purity about wood. Will probably start with walnut and American cherry.

Dok · 06-23-2001, 09:24 AM

that has been in it's case for 30 years, and there is no sign of rust. Of course I keep it well oiled, and the case has picked up some of that, but otherwise no harm.

Dok · 06-23-2001, 09:28 AM

Gene · 06-23-2001, 12:03 PM

Any impervious material will, of course, create a possible condensation problem with changes in temperature. But if the humidity is reasonably constant, that should not necessarily be a problem in long term storage.

Plastics, foam, paper, etc., are another problem altogether. Even without moisture, some of these materials may contain substances which will ultimately cause discoloration or corrosion. The most infamous are the soft plastics, like polyvinlchloride (PVC)which can slowly release hydrogen chloride gas, as well as sticky chemical plasticizers. As I'm sure you know, hydrogen chloride combines with the moisture in the air to form hydrochloric acid -- which ain't gonna improve the appearance or condition of your Lugers!

Similarly, ordinary paper contains sulphur which, over time, will can either directly react with metals, or produce sulphuric acid. Many glues and adhesives (used to cement a storage box or liner) contain very corrosive

chemicals. Same with rubber materials or foam.

Not all plastics or other synthetic materials are problematical, of course. For example, polyethelene, lucite, and mylar are perfectly fine for long term storage.

If you can tolerate the other effects on your senses, mothballs will keep airborne contaminants from entering your storage container by keeping a positive pressure within your storage containers. This is how things like the Metal Safe Corrosion Inhibitor works.

Dok · 06-23-2001, 12:41 PM

Thor · 06-23-2001, 01:01 PM

Excellent information! Wow those acids are bad as blood or worse in the strong concentrations. I once spilt some blood on a PPK and in 10 seconds it had marked permanantly the finish! Thor

BILL · 06-23-2001, 01:06 PM

Thorador, Hang on to that PPK, I have seen many auctions displaying "blood stained" Lugers from WWI and WWII..and they always charge more for them. I asked someone once how they knew it was a blood stain. He emailed me back and went into great detail about how, due to the viscosity of blood, that is spatters just a certain way and nothing else does that. Apparently it is very similar to a bovine with the runs, but I didn't try to explain that angle to him.

Kyrie · 06-23-2001, 01:59 PM

Hi Folks,

I store all my firearm in BoreStores. These are firearm shaped sox made from a treated material that allows ventilation but inhibits oxidation. It also prevents the firearms from bumping up against each other, and protects them when I get fumble fingered and drop one

Just my $0.02 worth, offered entirely FWIW.

Best regards,

Kyrie

Big Norm · 06-24-2001, 03:10 AM

Bore Stores cases are excellent. It breaths well and is silicone coated. What I do is go to a cloth store and get some thick, clear mylar (spelling?) and cut it into squares about 2X4 inches. Then I take the case and the plastic squares to a tailor and have him mechanically stitch it onto the cases. Now I can put an identifying piece of paper on the outside and I don't have to open all the cases to find the gun that I am looking for.

Another no-no for long term storage is to not store your gun in a leather holster. Leather is treated with acids during curing. Long term storage can screw up the blueing.

Did you ever watch 'History of the Gun' on TV. Did you ever notice the gun curators at museums wear white gloves. They ain't being dainty. Over the long term, the acid in your hands can make a mint gun look like an honest gun. In other words, one step lower in quality. A few people here have mentioned coin collectors. They are excellent examples of how to take care of metal. They just don't use oil.

Oil is another discussion. Everybody has their favorite lubricant. WD40 is not a lubricant and should not be used on a gun. It does leave a film but it is too thin. If you are really, really picky and want the best then consider sewing machine oil. It is the oil with the lowest sulfur content that you can buy. Heat plus water plus sulfur equals sulfuric acid. And over a long period of time you don't need a lot of heat.

I am going to say something that will start a debate now. I have heard auto engineers say that car oil is now refined so well that it may be good enough to be used on guns. Lets hear a fun discussion on that.

Big Norm

06-22-2001, 10:10 PM	#1
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 971 Times in 277 Posts	Presentation Case and Long Term Storage I know Dok is making some terrific presentation cases and I bet Rick K is pumped about getting the first two off the line (are they serialized?) Not a bad idea! I have had a very puzzling question that keeps biting at me everytime we talk about them! IS long term storage a problem in VELVET or FELT lined cases. I know Ralph keeps his BABY (the true 32 ACP very small baby) in a very small green lined presentation case permanantly and that tells me that in the conditions in his vault, it must be okay! What about a plastic type liner that could be placed in the case just in the depression where the gun lies during storage? Any ideas from you Long term collectors? I would really appreciate your thoughts and experiences? Thanks!! Thor

06-22-2001, 11:11 PM	#2
Ad. Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Plastic liners. I don't know about gun cases, but car guys (me among them) shy away from plastic anything (car covers, floor mats, etc) because of the possibility of condensation on the bottom side of the plastic. Ad.

06-23-2001, 01:48 AM	#3
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Long term storage & presentation cases I have a 1906 commercial that has been in a velvet lined presentation case for over 30 years. There were no synthetic materials used in the construction of the case. The finish of the pistol is excellent and shows no evidence of having been in a case of any kind. I am of the belief that many 'presentation grade' pistols are kept in their original casings for the entire duration. With regard to polyvinyl products, there was a coin collector I knew who bought a new line of plastic envelopes for his coins and within a year the coins became mottled.

06-23-2001, 05:07 AM	#4
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 7 Posts	Re: Long term storage & presentation cases I have been involved in woodworking pretty heavily for some time and have built a number of jewelry boxes. As a result, I have done considerable reading about the subject, and some writers strongly recommend not using any artificial material in them, claim it can tarnish the jewelry over time. All of my boxes are wood combinations. I am in the process of designing presentation cases for the Luger, and don't plan to use anything but wood and brass hinges. There is a certain purity about wood. Will probably start with walnut and American cherry.

06-23-2001, 09:24 AM	#5
Dok RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bermuda (Eat Your Heart Out) Posts: 1,626 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	I have a Colt 1860 Army... that has been in it's case for 30 years, and there is no sign of rust. Of course I keep it well oiled, and the case has picked up some of that, but otherwise no harm.

06-23-2001, 09:28 AM	#6
Dok RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bermuda (Eat Your Heart Out) Posts: 1,626 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Would love to see pictures when you do them. (EOM)

06-23-2001, 12:03 PM	#7
Gene User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 23 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Long term storage & presentation cases Any impervious material will, of course, create a possible condensation problem with changes in temperature. But if the humidity is reasonably constant, that should not necessarily be a problem in long term storage. Plastics, foam, paper, etc., are another problem altogether. Even without moisture, some of these materials may contain substances which will ultimately cause discoloration or corrosion. The most infamous are the soft plastics, like polyvinlchloride (PVC)which can slowly release hydrogen chloride gas, as well as sticky chemical plasticizers. As I'm sure you know, hydrogen chloride combines with the moisture in the air to form hydrochloric acid -- which ain't gonna improve the appearance or condition of your Lugers! Similarly, ordinary paper contains sulphur which, over time, will can either directly react with metals, or produce sulphuric acid. Many glues and adhesives (used to cement a storage box or liner) contain very corrosive chemicals. Same with rubber materials or foam. Not all plastics or other synthetic materials are problematical, of course. For example, polyethelene, lucite, and mylar are perfectly fine for long term storage. If you can tolerate the other effects on your senses, mothballs will keep airborne contaminants from entering your storage container by keeping a positive pressure within your storage containers. This is how things like the Metal Safe Corrosion Inhibitor works.

06-23-2001, 12:41 PM	#8
Dok RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Bermuda (Eat Your Heart Out) Posts: 1,626 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Excellent points! (EOM)

06-23-2001, 01:01 PM	#9
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 971 Times in 277 Posts	Re: Thanks Gene Excellent information! Wow those acids are bad as blood or worse in the strong concentrations. I once spilt some blood on a PPK and in 10 seconds it had marked permanantly the finish! Thor

06-23-2001, 01:06 PM	#10
BILL User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Western Washington Posts: 826 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Thanks Gene Thorador, Hang on to that PPK, I have seen many auctions displaying "blood stained" Lugers from WWI and WWII..and they always charge more for them. I asked someone once how they knew it was a blood stain. He emailed me back and went into great detail about how, due to the viscosity of blood, that is spatters just a certain way and nothing else does that. Apparently it is very similar to a bovine with the runs, but I didn't try to explain that angle to him.

06-23-2001, 01:59 PM	#11
Kyrie User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 757 Thanks: 0 Thanked 212 Times in 101 Posts	Re: Presentation Case and Long Term Storage Hi Folks, I store all my firearm in BoreStores. These are firearm shaped sox made from a treated material that allows ventilation but inhibits oxidation. It also prevents the firearms from bumping up against each other, and protects them when I get fumble fingered and drop one Just my $0.02 worth, offered entirely FWIW. Best regards, Kyrie

06-24-2001, 03:10 AM	#12
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Re: Presentation Case and Long Term Storage Bore Stores cases are excellent. It breaths well and is silicone coated. What I do is go to a cloth store and get some thick, clear mylar (spelling?) and cut it into squares about 2X4 inches. Then I take the case and the plastic squares to a tailor and have him mechanically stitch it onto the cases. Now I can put an identifying piece of paper on the outside and I don't have to open all the cases to find the gun that I am looking for. Another no-no for long term storage is to not store your gun in a leather holster. Leather is treated with acids during curing. Long term storage can screw up the blueing. Did you ever watch 'History of the Gun' on TV. Did you ever notice the gun curators at museums wear white gloves. They ain't being dainty. Over the long term, the acid in your hands can make a mint gun look like an honest gun. In other words, one step lower in quality. A few people here have mentioned coin collectors. They are excellent examples of how to take care of metal. They just don't use oil. Oil is another discussion. Everybody has their favorite lubricant. WD40 is not a lubricant and should not be used on a gun. It does leave a film but it is too thin. If you are really, really picky and want the best then consider sewing machine oil. It is the oil with the lowest sulfur content that you can buy. Heat plus water plus sulfur equals sulfuric acid. And over a long period of time you don't need a lot of heat. I am going to say something that will start a debate now. I have heard auto engineers say that car oil is now refined so well that it may be good enough to be used on guns. Lets hear a fun discussion on that. Big Norm