Mauser Banner Logo...???

Pete Ebbink · 02-21-2005, 09:04 PM

I haven't been paying much attention to the Mauser Banner luger world...

Can anyone tell me what year the small Banner logo changed to the big logo ?

Both for Military lugers and commercial lugers...

Thanks in advance for your help...

I will also do a "search" to see if this was covered before...

Regards,

Pete...

Lugerdoc · 02-22-2005, 09:43 AM

Pete, It appears that the rest of us having worried about this either. I would suppect that Jan Still covers this somewhere in 3rd Reich Lugers. Tom

RockinWR · 02-22-2005, 08:38 PM

Pete,
* An innocent, little, loaded question....eh, Pete??
* FWIW: I'll relate an AutoMag answer given in Vol. XXX, Issue 3 (6/97), Pg. 59.
- Small 5 line Banner no later than 1939 chamber date-S/N 7916v.
- Larger 7 line Banner no earlier than 1939 chamber date-s/n 1575w.
* Logo change possibly coinciding with the Mauser commercial proof house change from C/U to E/N.
* That or the old Mauser logo die might have worn out and was just replaced.
* A real good question. Let's see how much dust this stirs up!
Respectfully,
Bob

Pete Ebbink · 02-22-2005, 08:50 PM

Hi Bob,

Thanks for the help.

I am looking over a piece that has the eagle/N proof which I read came about around 1940...just wasn't sure what sized logo to expect.

Very similar to this piece Simpson's is offering...but with a Swiss cross/sunburst on the chamber...

http://www.simpsonltd.com/LugerRoom/.../B-04/B-04.htm

Regards,

Pete...

drbuster · 02-23-2005, 09:03 AM

Pete, Am I missing something? The chamber on this piece had no markings...commercial??

Pete Ebbink · 02-23-2005, 10:47 AM

Hi Doc,

Here is the sales description from Simpson's on the gun I had linked to (i.e. not the one I have on its way to my home...) :

" B-04 MAUSER 1906/34 BANNER SWISS BLANK CHAMBER, 99% blue, 98% straw, excellent bore, near mint grips, commercial model, World of Lugers pp 410 s/n 36xx v 30 cal C1331 $7500.00 "

According to Jan Still's TRL on page 219, some of the Swiss Mauser commercial contract lugers have blank chamber dates, some with 1937 or 1939 dates, or others will have the Swiss cross in sunburst. He also writes that most will have C/C/U proofs while some are E/N proofed and some will have additional Swiss proofing. Serial number ranges reported are in the 1275v to 1920v and the 3535v to 4000v ranges. A few earlier pieces in the 500v range are also reported but with DWM toggles.

The one coming to my home (after Dwight Gruber's tip...thanks Dwight !!!) has the Swiss cross in sunburst on the chamber and is only E/N proofed...in the 37xx v serial range, typical M1906 configuration with 4.75" barrel, grip safety, etc.

Regards,

Pete...

Pete Ebbink · 02-26-2005, 05:40 PM

Saw a copy of a letter (at the SOS/NGD show in KY) written by Reinhardt Kornmayer in November 3, 1987 that stated the Eagle/Nitro proof was started by Mauser for use on January 15, 1940...

Vlim · 02-27-2005, 09:18 AM

Hi Pete,

Could well be, although I'd expect it to be a bit later.

German law forced a change of proofing and proof marks. This law was published in june, 1939 and became official from april, 1940 onwards in Germany and from june, 1940 in Germany-controlled areas. Last to join was Austria in july, 1940.

It's very well possible (and most plausible) that Mauser pistols started being proofed 'new style' between june, 1939 and april, 1940.

02-21-2005, 09:04 PM	#1
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Mauser Banner Logo...??? I haven't been paying much attention to the Mauser Banner luger world... Can anyone tell me what year the small Banner logo changed to the big logo ? Both for Military lugers and commercial lugers... Thanks in advance for your help... I will also do a "search" to see if this was covered before... Regards, Pete...

02-22-2005, 09:43 AM	#2
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Pete, It appears that the rest of us having worried about this either. I would suppect that Jan Still covers this somewhere in 3rd Reich Lugers. Tom __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

02-26-2005, 05:40 PM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Eagle/N Start... Saw a copy of a letter (at the SOS/NGD show in KY) written by Reinhardt Kornmayer in November 3, 1987 that stated the Eagle/Nitro proof was started by Mauser for use on January 15, 1940...

02-22-2005, 08:38 PM	#3
RockinWR User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: D/FW, Tx Posts: 279 Thanks: 109 Thanked 31 Times in 16 Posts	Pete, * An innocent, little, loaded question....eh, Pete?? * FWIW: I'll relate an AutoMag answer given in Vol. XXX, Issue 3 (6/97), Pg. 59. - Small 5 line Banner no later than 1939 chamber date-S/N 7916v. - Larger 7 line Banner no earlier than 1939 chamber date-s/n 1575w. * Logo change possibly coinciding with the Mauser commercial proof house change from C/U to E/N. * That or the old Mauser logo die might have worn out and was just replaced. * A real good question. Let's see how much dust this stirs up! Respectfully, Bob

02-22-2005, 08:50 PM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Bob, Thanks for the help. I am looking over a piece that has the eagle/N proof which I read came about around 1940...just wasn't sure what sized logo to expect. Very similar to this piece Simpson's is offering...but with a Swiss cross/sunburst on the chamber... http://www.simpsonltd.com/LugerRoom/.../B-04/B-04.htm Regards, Pete...

02-23-2005, 09:03 AM	#5
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Pete, Am I missing something? The chamber on this piece had no markings...commercial??

02-23-2005, 10:47 AM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Doc, Here is the sales description from Simpson's on the gun I had linked to (i.e. not the one I have on its way to my home...) : " B-04 MAUSER 1906/34 BANNER SWISS BLANK CHAMBER, 99% blue, 98% straw, excellent bore, near mint grips, commercial model, World of Lugers pp 410 s/n 36xx v 30 cal C1331 $7500.00 " According to Jan Still's TRL on page 219, some of the Swiss Mauser commercial contract lugers have blank chamber dates, some with 1937 or 1939 dates, or others will have the Swiss cross in sunburst. He also writes that most will have C/C/U proofs while some are E/N proofed and some will have additional Swiss proofing. Serial number ranges reported are in the 1275v to 1920v and the 3535v to 4000v ranges. A few earlier pieces in the 500v range are also reported but with DWM toggles. The one coming to my home (after Dwight Gruber's tip...thanks Dwight !!!) has the Swiss cross in sunburst on the chamber and is only E/N proofed...in the 37xx v serial range, typical M1906 configuration with 4.75" barrel, grip safety, etc. Regards, Pete...

02-27-2005, 09:18 AM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,987 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi Pete, Could well be, although I'd expect it to be a bit later. German law forced a change of proofing and proof marks. This law was published in june, 1939 and became official from april, 1940 onwards in Germany and from june, 1940 in Germany-controlled areas. Last to join was Austria in july, 1940. It's very well possible (and most plausible) that Mauser pistols started being proofed 'new style' between june, 1939 and april, 1940.