US Test Serial Numbers

xray · 01-21-2005, 04:02 PM

In his book on US test Lugers (at least in my copy), Reese lists test Luger serial numbers and owners. There are three pairs of repeated serial numbers with different owners. Are these typos or were there repeat serial numbers or fakes?

Edward Tinker · 01-21-2005, 04:08 PM

These lists were from gathered lists of known owners and I would imagine the guns were sold. But Ron will know for sure.

Ed

Ron Wood · 01-21-2005, 09:35 PM

I am not aware of any duplicate serial numbers. I think Reese did as I do, maintain a history of serial numbers collected. I have some Test Lugers on my list that I have tracked through three owners.

If you look at the examples you referenced in Reese's list you will note that two of the three pairs of repeated numbers have Ralph Shattuck, a dealer, associated with them. I suspect that Reese picked up the numbers from Ralph's for sale listings, either before or after they changed ownership, and made seperate entries for each observance.

The possibility certainly exists that there are fakes that duplicate actual test pieces, but I am not aware of any.

xray · 01-22-2005, 10:07 AM

In Part Six (Selective Notes) of Reese, is a table attributed to "seven years of research on the Test Trials" which in part lists:

S/N Listed Owner

6165 Nelson
6165 Stone

6372 Shattuck
6372 Artal

6632 Zeusler
6632 Binlowshi

6965 Shattuck
6965 Binkowski

Are these typos, due to sales (if this why list both owners), real repeats due to fakes, or what?

Edward Tinker · 01-22-2005, 10:56 AM

In seven years, I would guess these are new owners. Unless you write Reese and ask him we are all guessing.
But two of the pairs are Ralph and he is obviously a dealer, so he then sold the item to these other guys.

Pete Ebbink · 01-22-2005, 11:18 AM

Good luck on contacting Reese...I have many times for 2 years and he is non-responsive...at least in my case...do a "Google" search for him in the cajun food industry in the So. SF, CA area and you will find his compnay contact info.

Ron Wood · 01-22-2005, 11:48 AM

I have been collecting serial numbers of US Test Lugers for over 20 years. I receive information from other collectors, dealers and listings. Some of the same serial numbers turn up from each source. There is no way to verify whether they are from the same or different Lugers, but the chance of duplicate manufactured serial numbers is zero, and there are sufficient surviving examples that the effort and expense of faking a Test Eagle that would pass detailed examination is not really very economically smart... you likely would not make enough profit to cover costs.

I am almost positive the duplicate listings are not typos, there are too many of them, and I have received duplicate reports on some of them also.

As I stated previously, I think Reese just included reports from multiple owners of the same piece, but I have no proof of that. The only individual that knows for sure is Reese himself. Unless you have more luck in contacting Reese than Pete has had, you are asking questions that have no answer...at least not in this venue.

xray · 01-22-2005, 12:01 PM

In posting the question I had expected to solicit a reponse like, "Don't you remember that Joe Know-it-all explored this in 1994 and that . . . . was found." I guess not.

Edward Tinker · 01-22-2005, 12:11 PM

I guess I'm confused?
Much like when I got wrapped around the circle S question and the answer was fairly obvious.

There are duplicates because different people reported the same numbers.

And If there are fakes, well, there are fakes everywhere. But surprisingly, Test Lugers don't go for HUGE amounts of money as so many were in fairly rough shape, and there were a 1,000 of them, etc., so I don't think they are faked very much.

Ed

Lugerdoc · 01-24-2005, 08:47 AM

Having lived near Mike Reese some years ago, I found that he is primarily a history buff and researcher. I commend his research thru the National Archives to publish his books, but his current interest now lean toward his Caugian food business, autographs and historic military photos. I think that I purchased the last of his luger stuff over 20 years ago. TH

01-21-2005, 04:02 PM	#1
xray User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	US Test Serial Numbers In his book on US test Lugers (at least in my copy), Reese lists test Luger serial numbers and owners. There are three pairs of repeated serial numbers with different owners. Are these typos or were there repeat serial numbers or fakes?

01-21-2005, 04:08 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	These lists were from gathered lists of known owners and I would imagine the guns were sold. But Ron will know for sure. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-21-2005, 09:35 PM	#3
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,256 Times in 1,724 Posts	I am not aware of any duplicate serial numbers. I think Reese did as I do, maintain a history of serial numbers collected. I have some Test Lugers on my list that I have tracked through three owners. If you look at the examples you referenced in Reese's list you will note that two of the three pairs of repeated numbers have Ralph Shattuck, a dealer, associated with them. I suspect that Reese picked up the numbers from Ralph's for sale listings, either before or after they changed ownership, and made seperate entries for each observance. The possibility certainly exists that there are fakes that duplicate actual test pieces, but I am not aware of any. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-22-2005, 10:56 AM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	In seven years, I would guess these are new owners. Unless you write Reese and ask him we are all guessing. But two of the pairs are Ralph and he is obviously a dealer, so he then sold the item to these other guys. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-22-2005, 11:48 AM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,256 Times in 1,724 Posts	I have been collecting serial numbers of US Test Lugers for over 20 years. I receive information from other collectors, dealers and listings. Some of the same serial numbers turn up from each source. There is no way to verify whether they are from the same or different Lugers, but the chance of duplicate manufactured serial numbers is zero, and there are sufficient surviving examples that the effort and expense of faking a Test Eagle that would pass detailed examination is not really very economically smart... you likely would not make enough profit to cover costs. I am almost positive the duplicate listings are not typos, there are too many of them, and I have received duplicate reports on some of them also. As I stated previously, I think Reese just included reports from multiple owners of the same piece, but I have no proof of that. The only individual that knows for sure is Reese himself. Unless you have more luck in contacting Reese than Pete has had, you are asking questions that have no answer...at least not in this venue. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

01-22-2005, 10:07 AM	#4
xray User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	In Part Six (Selective Notes) of Reese, is a table attributed to "seven years of research on the Test Trials" which in part lists: S/N Listed Owner 6165 Nelson 6165 Stone 6372 Shattuck 6372 Artal 6632 Zeusler 6632 Binlowshi 6965 Shattuck 6965 Binkowski Are these typos, due to sales (if this why list both owners), real repeats due to fakes, or what?

01-22-2005, 11:18 AM	#6
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Good luck on contacting Reese...I have many times for 2 years and he is non-responsive...at least in my case...do a "Google" search for him in the cajun food industry in the So. SF, CA area and you will find his compnay contact info.

01-22-2005, 12:01 PM	#8
xray User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	In posting the question I had expected to solicit a reponse like, "Don't you remember that Joe Know-it-all explored this in 1994 and that . . . . was found." I guess not.

01-22-2005, 12:11 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	I guess I'm confused? Much like when I got wrapped around the circle S question and the answer was fairly obvious. There are duplicates because different people reported the same numbers. And If there are fakes, well, there are fakes everywhere. But surprisingly, Test Lugers don't go for HUGE amounts of money as so many were in fairly rough shape, and there were a 1,000 of them, etc., so I don't think they are faked very much. Ed

01-24-2005, 08:47 AM	#10
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Having lived near Mike Reese some years ago, I found that he is primarily a history buff and researcher. I commend his research thru the National Archives to publish his books, but his current interest now lean toward his Caugian food business, autographs and historic military photos. I think that I purchased the last of his luger stuff over 20 years ago. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net