Strange Chamber Marking

Thor · 01-10-2005, 11:55 AM

This is on Ron Smiths Commerical DWM Shooter. I have not seen this chamber marking before. Has anyone else seen it or knows where it was marked like this? Thanks

John Sabato · 01-10-2005, 12:02 PM

I haven't seen this before either Thor... but it is obvious that the chamber was RE-"dated"... because the digits are too close to barrel... they should appear more where the "N" is instead of forward where they are...

and they don't even look like DWM markings... they look pantographed instead of stamped.

Thor · 01-10-2005, 12:09 PM

I certainly agree John, just a curiosity!

Ron Smith · 01-10-2005, 04:21 PM

Ted and John, I bought this upper from Tom Heller. He did'nt say anything one way or the other about it. Maybe he knows something.

Karl · 01-10-2005, 07:54 PM

There is a crescent-shaped highlight at the left edge of the receiver, adjacent to the ejection port opening, that suggests the top of the receiver has been ground down. The numerals don't look right: the "1" numerals should have serifs at the bottom and the trailing "tail" of the "9" should terminate in a small circle (like the classic "red 9").

Ron, is the cannon matching? KFS

Ron Smith · 01-10-2005, 10:06 PM

Hello Karl,
All I have is the upper half. It was basically just a parts gun. That I bought to swap out on one of my other Lugers to use as a shooter. I also replaced the toggle train. The original was a very poorly refinished DWM. I doubt that there is any way to determine the origin of the marking. As Ted says "just a curiosity". I believe it may be a 1906. At least the barrel is.

Ron

John Sabato · 01-11-2005, 10:57 AM

I agree Ron... it is just a curiosity... I was just speculating about it's possible origin...

Lugerdoc · 01-11-2005, 11:36 AM

Ron, This top was on a 1917 dated Navy framed mismatched shooter. In my opinion, this was someones attempt to make the mismatch barreled receiver match the 1917 Navy frame. One could also interpet it as a phony Nordsee inventory number, stamped in the wrong location. I SERIOUSLY doubt that the Germans has anything to do with this marking. TH

Ron Smith · 01-11-2005, 05:59 PM

Tom, Thanks. I like it anyway. Adds a bit of mystery to it. I know! It's a Navy prototype. Georg Luger himself, put that mark on it for the famous
navy test trials at Lake Minitonkawitz.

If anyone is interested in this famous piece of Luger History? I'll offer it to forum members only, for $75000. This week only.

It's a steal!!!!

Heinz · 01-11-2005, 08:46 PM

Does that include the prototype 1914 bottom and the rare two tone finish?

Lugerdoc · 01-12-2005, 08:36 AM

Ron, At least you have one variation that Tom A. doesn't have in his Navy collection. TH

Ron Smith · 01-12-2005, 10:20 AM

Heinz,

For $75000 I'll put diamonds in the grips. Of course shipping is extra.

Tom, That would probably be a first. Since Tom A is such a nice guy. I let him have it for $74,995. Including the diamonds. I'll even put Georg Lugers int'ls on it.

Ron

Heinz · 01-12-2005, 07:13 PM

Ron

"I'll even put Georg Lugers int'ls on it. "

I think you meant to say, "I just noticed Georg Luger's initials are on it"

01-10-2005, 11:55 AM	#1
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Strange Chamber Marking This is on Ron Smiths Commerical DWM Shooter. I have not seen this chamber marking before. Has anyone else seen it or knows where it was marked like this? Thanks __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

01-10-2005, 12:02 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I haven't seen this before either Thor... but it is obvious that the chamber was RE-"dated"... because the digits are too close to barrel... they should appear more where the "N" is instead of forward where they are... and they don't even look like DWM markings... they look pantographed instead of stamped. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-10-2005, 12:09 PM	#3
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I certainly agree John, just a curiosity! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

01-10-2005, 04:21 PM	#4
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Ted and John, I bought this upper from Tom Heller. He did'nt say anything one way or the other about it. Maybe he knows something. __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

01-10-2005, 10:06 PM	#6
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Hello Karl, All I have is the upper half. It was basically just a parts gun. That I bought to swap out on one of my other Lugers to use as a shooter. I also replaced the toggle train. The original was a very poorly refinished DWM. I doubt that there is any way to determine the origin of the marking. As Ted says "just a curiosity". I believe it may be a 1906. At least the barrel is. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

01-10-2005, 07:54 PM	#5
Karl Lifer - Twice Over Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Savannah Posts: 515 Thanks: 0 Thanked 252 Times in 112 Posts	There is a crescent-shaped highlight at the left edge of the receiver, adjacent to the ejection port opening, that suggests the top of the receiver has been ground down. The numerals don't look right: the "1" numerals should have serifs at the bottom and the trailing "tail" of the "9" should terminate in a small circle (like the classic "red 9"). Ron, is the cannon matching? KFS

01-11-2005, 10:57 AM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I agree Ron... it is just a curiosity... I was just speculating about it's possible origin... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-11-2005, 11:36 AM	#8
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Ron, This top was on a 1917 dated Navy framed mismatched shooter. In my opinion, this was someones attempt to make the mismatch barreled receiver match the 1917 Navy frame. One could also interpet it as a phony Nordsee inventory number, stamped in the wrong location. I SERIOUSLY doubt that the Germans has anything to do with this marking. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

01-11-2005, 05:59 PM	#9
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Tom, Thanks. I like it anyway. Adds a bit of mystery to it. I know! It's a Navy prototype. Georg Luger himself, put that mark on it for the famous navy test trials at Lake Minitonkawitz. If anyone is interested in this famous piece of Luger History? I'll offer it to forum members only, for $75000. This week only. It's a steal!!!! __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

01-11-2005, 08:46 PM	#10
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Does that include the prototype 1914 bottom and the rare two tone finish?

01-12-2005, 08:36 AM	#11
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Ron, At least you have one variation that Tom A. doesn't have in his Navy collection. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

01-12-2005, 10:20 AM	#12
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Heinz, For $75000 I'll put diamonds in the grips. Of course shipping is extra. Tom, That would probably be a first. Since Tom A is such a nice guy. I let him have it for $74,995. Including the diamonds. I'll even put Georg Lugers int'ls on it. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

01-12-2005, 07:13 PM	#13
Heinz User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Greenville SC Posts: 1,004 Thanks: 377 Thanked 410 Times in 180 Posts	Ron "I'll even put Georg Lugers int'ls on it. " I think you meant to say, "I just noticed Georg Luger's initials are on it"