1911A1 Remington Rand

policeluger · 04-30-2004, 06:47 PM

Before I search elsewhere, do we have a 1911A1 expert here who could apprise a WW2 Remington Rand in exc to mint condition...I can send pictures if it will help, I just came across one and want to get a feel for current value, thanks

Roadkill · 04-30-2004, 06:59 PM

I'm no expert by any means, but of the standard three all things being equal, Colt is highest, Ithaca is next, then Remingtons. An exc Colt will hit about $1200, Ithaca about $1000,Remingtons about $200 less. 1911s bring about 25% more.

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=5684758

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=5688099

rk

AGE · 05-01-2004, 12:07 AM

Singer (the sewing machine company) made a few. Very rare and worth many thousands. I would guess that in this area most 1911A1s would go for $800 in top condition. If you want to shoot something, get a new Kimber or Springfield.

Edward Tinker · 05-01-2004, 08:55 AM

Howard, if you want to know more, here is a site that John showed me;

http://www.1911forum.com/forums/inde...8aded8485b575f

Check your PM's for another message too,

Ed

policeluger · 05-01-2004, 11:27 AM

Ed, thanks, just something to carry around the LV show next month, along with a mint Navy trophy M1 in 7.62. AGE, thanks for reply, been shooting a series 70 for 35 years, have a few Colts and S'fields, series 80's and so on, this is just my most mint RR I have had offered, thanks again

AGE · 05-02-2004, 12:01 AM

Went to a gun show in Ft. Myers today. Saw a number of 1911s and 1911A1s. A nice Remington Rand A1 was priced at $800, but this was probably subject to dickering. Also was offered a 1911 Colt with papers that looked like it just came from an arsenal rebuild. Seller dropped to $700 and got huffy when I didn't jump on it. I might have if I were a collector, but I have a number of these already, mostly modified.

policeluger · 05-02-2004, 10:46 AM

I have gotten some interest here on the gun, duel tone clip and minty Sears holster, I will have some pictures of it later today I hope, and perhaps a LF member will get it before it get to the LV show later this month

Mike Fitz · 05-02-2004, 12:16 PM

Singer only made 500 1911A1's, all in 1941. Most of them went to the Army Air Corps.

Don't forget Union Switch & Signal Co. of Swissvale PA (marked U.S.& S. CO.).
They made only 55,000 1911A1's all in 1943.

Mike

John Sabato · 05-03-2004, 04:22 PM

I built a 1911A1 for my uncle back in 1970 using an Essex frame... he was an MP during WW2 and had always wished he had brought his pistol home with him... The slide came out of my parts box at the time... It was a Union Switch & Signal slide... He still has it! I figured if I ever came across a US&S frame, I would buy him a Colt slide and trade him for it... but I never have found one in that serial number range...

John -Melb · 05-03-2004, 06:19 PM

I remember reading a question published (I think) in a "Guns and Ammo" about 12 years ago. It was from an American MP at the time his unit was changing over from the 1911A1 to the Beretta. Apparently they were offering the 1911A1's for sale to unit members at (I think) about $150 a piece.

Apparently a large number of guns in his unit were made by Union or Singer? He wanted to know if he should buy one or look for a real Colt!

Navy · 05-03-2004, 08:05 PM

"Apparently they were offering the 1911A1's for sale to unit members at (I think) about $150 a piece."

This is simply not possible. The US Army has not sold weapons to individuals (except General Officer personal handguns)since W.W.II.

The individual writing the letter must have been mistaken. Army policy for as long as I can remember (And that goes back to the early '60's) is that individual small arms were reported to the item manager for disposition instructions. They were then either shipped to a depot (Anniston, Red River, etc) for refurbishment and storage as war reserves or they were demilled, as in cut up. A number of handguns, rifles and carbines were permitted to be sold to civilians through the Director of Civilian Marksmanship, but unit sales to individual soldiers would have been in violation of Army policy.

If I am wrong on this, I certainly would appreciate being corrected authoritatively.

Tom A.

John Sabato · 05-03-2004, 10:03 PM

You are correct Tom, at least as late as 1988 when I retired. I served from 1967 to 1988 and at no time were military weapons ever offered for sale to soldiers or anyone else as surplus with the one exception you mentioned about General officers purchasing their sidearms. Countless WW2 weapons were destroyed until the NRA convinced the congress of the waste... That saved the balance of rifles that are now available throught the CMP...

Edward Tinker · 05-04-2004, 10:40 AM

My Grandfather (being retired military), was very interested in these ole 45's, and he kept asking me if they were coming up for sale. They never were...

I know that up to the first Gulf War, that 45's were sent over to the gulf, and 9mm's switched over. I believe a few were liberated then, but I never heard of any for sale.

One of those rumors I bet, as I heard lots of civilians ask if they were coming up for sale. In fact, there was a gov't 45 for sale a couple of years ago, and the guy said a friend of his had bought it from the military during the swtich over (which took about 10 years). So unless some depot level screwed up and released them, I think people say they bought it, when in reality it was stolen. And boy, when a weapon, ANY weapon turns up missing, they literally have the entire unit locked down until it turns up. There was a unit in Fort Lewis that lost a pistol, and the unit was locked down from Friday until past Monday when it was "found" in a garbage can in a laundry room.

Ed

AGE · 05-04-2004, 05:33 PM

Some 1911s were sold through the DCM to NRA members back in the late '60s. The price was about $12.50 (plus $5 shipping). I know because I got one and still have it.

I don't know if any 1911A1s were sold at the same time. You could only buy one and the one I got was a 1911. They called these "unservicable" condition for some reason, maybe because they were 1911s.

Daniel · 05-04-2004, 09:59 PM

I ordered through the NRA DCM program about 1964 also and got lucky. My 1911 is a Colt and like brand new and the 1911A1 is a US S&S and about 95%. Still have the Colt in the original shipping box with papers and have never shot it, I guess because it was a " Colt " and I wanted to preserve it for the future. The US S&S I have shot it perhaps a dozen times because it was a unknown manufacturer and I was disappointed it wasn't another Colt. BUT , when I realized what I had, I oiled it, am taking care of it and haven't shot it since. Went out and bought a Series 70 for a "shooter"......

Mike Fitz · 05-04-2004, 11:56 PM

I bought a Remington Rand 1911A1 on Gunbroker.Com approximately 3 1/2 years ago.
The seller sent me the original DCM paperwork from the 1960's with it.
It came out of the Anniston Arsenal in Alabama. It had been arsenal refinished at Augusta Arsenal as it had the code AA on the right frame in front of the slide release. All of the parts were correct for the weapon except the mainspring housing which was for an Ithica. Also came with a post World War 2 magazine.
The DCM paperwork said it was sold as unserviceable even though it was in mint condition and was sold to the man I purchased it from for under $20 which included shipping.
I paid $700.00 for it and kept it until I was able to get a Remington Rand that was not an arsenal rework in almost the same condition.
I eventually used the DCM 1911A1 as part of a cash / trade for a 1918 manufactured Winchester 97 trenchgun.

04-30-2004, 06:47 PM	#1
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	1911A1 Remington Rand Before I search elsewhere, do we have a 1911A1 expert here who could apprise a WW2 Remington Rand in exc to mint condition...I can send pictures if it will help, I just came across one and want to get a feel for current value, thanks

05-01-2004, 12:07 AM	#3
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Singer (the sewing machine company) made a few. Very rare and worth many thousands. I would guess that in this area most 1911A1s would go for $800 in top condition. If you want to shoot something, get a new Kimber or Springfield. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

05-01-2004, 08:55 AM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	Howard, if you want to know more, here is a site that John showed me; http://www.1911forum.com/forums/inde...8aded8485b575f Check your PM's for another message too, Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

05-02-2004, 12:01 AM	#6
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Went to a gun show in Ft. Myers today. Saw a number of 1911s and 1911A1s. A nice Remington Rand A1 was priced at $800, but this was probably subject to dickering. Also was offered a 1911 Colt with papers that looked like it just came from an arsenal rebuild. Seller dropped to $700 and got huffy when I didn't jump on it. I might have if I were a collector, but I have a number of these already, mostly modified. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

05-03-2004, 04:22 PM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	I built a 1911A1 for my uncle back in 1970 using an Essex frame... he was an MP during WW2 and had always wished he had brought his pistol home with him... The slide came out of my parts box at the time... It was a Union Switch & Signal slide... He still has it! I figured if I ever came across a US&S frame, I would buy him a Colt slide and trade him for it... but I never have found one in that serial number range... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-30-2004, 06:59 PM	#2
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,634 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	I'm no expert by any means, but of the standard three all things being equal, Colt is highest, Ithaca is next, then Remingtons. An exc Colt will hit about $1200, Ithaca about $1000,Remingtons about $200 less. 1911s bring about 25% more. http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=5684758 http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temnum=5688099 rk

05-01-2004, 11:27 AM	#5
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	Ed, thanks, just something to carry around the LV show next month, along with a mint Navy trophy M1 in 7.62. AGE, thanks for reply, been shooting a series 70 for 35 years, have a few Colts and S'fields, series 80's and so on, this is just my most mint RR I have had offered, thanks again

05-02-2004, 10:46 AM	#7
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	I have gotten some interest here on the gun, duel tone clip and minty Sears holster, I will have some pictures of it later today I hope, and perhaps a LF member will get it before it get to the LV show later this month

05-02-2004, 12:16 PM	#8
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Singer only made 500 1911A1's, all in 1941. Most of them went to the Army Air Corps. Don't forget Union Switch & Signal Co. of Swissvale PA (marked U.S.& S. CO.). They made only 55,000 1911A1's all in 1943. Mike

05-03-2004, 06:19 PM	#10
John -Melb User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melbourne, Peoples Republic of Australia! Posts: 145 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I remember reading a question published (I think) in a "Guns and Ammo" about 12 years ago. It was from an American MP at the time his unit was changing over from the 1911A1 to the Beretta. Apparently they were offering the 1911A1's for sale to unit members at (I think) about $150 a piece. Apparently a large number of guns in his unit were made by Union or Singer? He wanted to know if he should buy one or look for a real Colt!

05-03-2004, 08:05 PM	#11
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	"Apparently they were offering the 1911A1's for sale to unit members at (I think) about $150 a piece." This is simply not possible. The US Army has not sold weapons to individuals (except General Officer personal handguns)since W.W.II. The individual writing the letter must have been mistaken. Army policy for as long as I can remember (And that goes back to the early '60's) is that individual small arms were reported to the item manager for disposition instructions. They were then either shipped to a depot (Anniston, Red River, etc) for refurbishment and storage as war reserves or they were demilled, as in cut up. A number of handguns, rifles and carbines were permitted to be sold to civilians through the Director of Civilian Marksmanship, but unit sales to individual soldiers would have been in violation of Army policy. If I am wrong on this, I certainly would appreciate being corrected authoritatively. Tom A.

05-03-2004, 10:03 PM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	You are correct Tom, at least as late as 1988 when I retired. I served from 1967 to 1988 and at no time were military weapons ever offered for sale to soldiers or anyone else as surplus with the one exception you mentioned about General officers purchasing their sidearms. Countless WW2 weapons were destroyed until the NRA convinced the congress of the waste... That saved the balance of rifles that are now available throught the CMP... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

05-04-2004, 10:40 AM	#13
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	My Grandfather (being retired military), was very interested in these ole 45's, and he kept asking me if they were coming up for sale. They never were... I know that up to the first Gulf War, that 45's were sent over to the gulf, and 9mm's switched over. I believe a few were liberated then, but I never heard of any for sale. One of those rumors I bet, as I heard lots of civilians ask if they were coming up for sale. In fact, there was a gov't 45 for sale a couple of years ago, and the guy said a friend of his had bought it from the military during the swtich over (which took about 10 years). So unless some depot level screwed up and released them, I think people say they bought it, when in reality it was stolen. And boy, when a weapon, ANY weapon turns up missing, they literally have the entire unit locked down until it turns up. There was a unit in Fort Lewis that lost a pistol, and the unit was locked down from Friday until past Monday when it was "found" in a garbage can in a laundry room. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

05-04-2004, 05:33 PM	#14
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Some 1911s were sold through the DCM to NRA members back in the late '60s. The price was about $12.50 (plus $5 shipping). I know because I got one and still have it. I don't know if any 1911A1s were sold at the same time. You could only buy one and the one I got was a 1911. They called these "unservicable" condition for some reason, maybe because they were 1911s. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

05-04-2004, 09:59 PM	#15
Daniel User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ct. and Ma. Posts: 152 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I ordered through the NRA DCM program about 1964 also and got lucky. My 1911 is a Colt and like brand new and the 1911A1 is a US S&S and about 95%. Still have the Colt in the original shipping box with papers and have never shot it, I guess because it was a " Colt " and I wanted to preserve it for the future. The US S&S I have shot it perhaps a dozen times because it was a unknown manufacturer and I was disappointed it wasn't another Colt. BUT , when I realized what I had, I oiled it, am taking care of it and haven't shot it since. Went out and bought a Series 70 for a "shooter"......

05-04-2004, 11:56 PM	#16
Mike Fitz User Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Leonia, NJ Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I bought a Remington Rand 1911A1 on Gunbroker.Com approximately 3 1/2 years ago. The seller sent me the original DCM paperwork from the 1960's with it. It came out of the Anniston Arsenal in Alabama. It had been arsenal refinished at Augusta Arsenal as it had the code AA on the right frame in front of the slide release. All of the parts were correct for the weapon except the mainspring housing which was for an Ithica. Also came with a post World War 2 magazine. The DCM paperwork said it was sold as unserviceable even though it was in mint condition and was sold to the man I purchased it from for under $20 which included shipping. I paid $700.00 for it and kept it until I was able to get a Remington Rand that was not an arsenal rework in almost the same condition. I eventually used the DCM 1911A1 as part of a cash / trade for a 1918 manufactured Winchester 97 trenchgun.