P.08, byf, 1941 "Black Stocks"

Luke · 06-13-2001, 04:30 PM

Just obtained a P.08 with matching serial numbers, manufactured by Mauser (byf) in 1941. Excellent condition.

It has black plastic stocks. I have read that only wooden or BROWN plastic stocks were used. Any thoughts?

Thanks for your help.

Luke

Jesse · 06-13-2001, 04:52 PM

Luke,

The black plastic grips are right for your byf. Mauser used both wood and black plastic grips on the 41-42 byf's. The byf's with the black plastic grips are known by most as a "Black Widow" Luger. Jesse

Frank · 06-13-2001, 05:13 PM

Welcome Luke!! Congratulations on your new Luger!! If your Luger has acceptance marks of Eagle 655 on the right side of the receiver, then look at the serial number on the front of the frame. There should be a script letter just below the numbers. If the letter is U, V, W, X, Y or Z, then the black grips are correct. Black grips are also correct if the acceptance marks on the right side of the receiver are Eagle 135.

bill m · 06-13-2001, 06:17 PM

Hi,

Frank, that information is correct on the black plastic grips, but they can also be of wood in these suffix blocks also. Before the U block I believe all the grips were of wood and during the U block they could be either black plastic or wood. As you know, the byf's started in the N block and ran into the B block. Luke, what is the serial number suffix of your gun, if you'd care to mention it? Hope this helps.

Frank · 06-13-2001, 07:39 PM

Bill, you are absolutely correct regards the wood grips. I was trying to identify the range for the black plastic. I have an early 42 byf with wood grips numbered to the pistol.

Luke · 06-13-2001, 09:50 PM

Thanks for the great response to my first-time question. It is a real pleasure to meet folks who know something about this subject.

The serial number of this particular Luger is 4605, and it appears that the script suffix on the front of the frame is a small "H" . . . . of some concern since no one mentioned the H suffix in the above comments.

After reading the comment on Black Widows below and checkng my grips, it appears that they are a very hard, brittle, extremely black material . . . . somewhat like bakelite.

I have disassembled the unit, and all serial numbers match except that the magazine does not seem to have a serial numbr of any kind. Should it be the same number?

Thanks again for all your help.

Luke

bill m · 06-13-2001, 11:08 PM

Hi Luke,

The suffix letters are sometimes hard to tell just what they are. The byf's started in the N block and went into the B block, so an byf with an H would not be correct.

N,O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y, Z, No Suffix, A, and B

If your gun has a blank alumium base and is in the V block or beyond, then it would be correct. Also, a blank black plastic would be correct after the U block. Otherwise I believe they should all be serial numbered to the gun. Code 122 magazines in the early letter blocks and then the fxo magazines.

06-13-2001, 11:09 PM

The pistol had two magazines with the serial number on them when it left the factory but few kept the original magazines over the decades.

The original byf 41's often had black bakelite stocks. I have heard of one with brown bakelite stocks but that is rare if not unknown. The old collector's rule of thumb is 80% byf41's were wood stocks and 20% were black bakelite.

In the 1960's a lot of lugers got black Franzite brand stocks. These look superficially like the originals but have Franzite on the back surface.

Be sure to check the firing pin and hold open latch for matching serial number.

Marvin · 06-14-2001, 05:32 AM

Hello Luke,

Welcome to the Luger Forum, we are certainly glad to have you and we want you to come back anytime!

The suffix letter is very difficult sometimes to read. If you will look in the "Technical Information" section, then "Markings", then "Letter Suffixes", you will find two different Old German alphabets. This will help you determine exactly which letter you have.

Congratulations on the Luger. I also have one of the 1941 "Blackwidow" Lugers.

Marvin

Luke · 06-14-2001, 06:12 AM

Another member was helpful in showing me the error in my reading of the serial number script letter. It appears it is a lower-case German "n" rather than an "h" as I had originally thought. From your comments, an "n" would be consistent with known information about the "byf" 41.

I am sure I will have many more questions as I get into this and I am really glad that I found you guys on this forum.

THANKS FOR ALL THE GREAT COMMENTS.

Luke

06-13-2001, 04:30 PM	#1
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 7 Posts	P.08, byf, 1941 "Black Stocks" Just obtained a P.08 with matching serial numbers, manufactured by Mauser (byf) in 1941. Excellent condition. It has black plastic stocks. I have read that only wooden or BROWN plastic stocks were used. Any thoughts? Thanks for your help. Luke

06-13-2001, 04:52 PM	#2
Jesse User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SW VA Posts: 103 Thanks: 6 Thanked 8 Times in 2 Posts	Re: P.08, byf, 1941 "Black Stocks" Luke, The black plastic grips are right for your byf. Mauser used both wood and black plastic grips on the 41-42 byf's. The byf's with the black plastic grips are known by most as a "Black Widow" Luger. Jesse

06-13-2001, 05:13 PM	#3
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	Re: P.08, byf, 1941 "Black Stocks" Welcome Luke!! Congratulations on your new Luger!! If your Luger has acceptance marks of Eagle 655 on the right side of the receiver, then look at the serial number on the front of the frame. There should be a script letter just below the numbers. If the letter is U, V, W, X, Y or Z, then the black grips are correct. Black grips are also correct if the acceptance marks on the right side of the receiver are Eagle 135.

06-13-2001, 06:17 PM	#4
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: P.08, byf, 1941 "Black Stocks" Hi, Frank, that information is correct on the black plastic grips, but they can also be of wood in these suffix blocks also. Before the U block I believe all the grips were of wood and during the U block they could be either black plastic or wood. As you know, the byf's started in the N block and ran into the B block. Luke, what is the serial number suffix of your gun, if you'd care to mention it? Hope this helps.

06-13-2001, 07:39 PM	#5
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 164 Times in 87 Posts	Re: P.08, byf, 1941 "Black Stocks" Bill, you are absolutely correct regards the wood grips. I was trying to identify the range for the black plastic. I have an early 42 byf with wood grips numbered to the pistol.

06-13-2001, 09:50 PM	#6
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 7 Posts	Re: P.08, byf, 1941 "Black Stocks" Thanks for the great response to my first-time question. It is a real pleasure to meet folks who know something about this subject. The serial number of this particular Luger is 4605, and it appears that the script suffix on the front of the frame is a small "H" . . . . of some concern since no one mentioned the H suffix in the above comments. After reading the comment on Black Widows below and checkng my grips, it appears that they are a very hard, brittle, extremely black material . . . . somewhat like bakelite. I have disassembled the unit, and all serial numbers match except that the magazine does not seem to have a serial numbr of any kind. Should it be the same number? Thanks again for all your help. Luke

06-13-2001, 11:08 PM	#7
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: P.08, byf, 1941 "Black Stocks" Hi Luke, The suffix letters are sometimes hard to tell just what they are. The byf's started in the N block and went into the B block, so an byf with an H would not be correct. N,O, P, Q, R, S, T, U, V, W, X, Y, Z, No Suffix, A, and B If your gun has a blank alumium base and is in the V block or beyond, then it would be correct. Also, a blank black plastic would be correct after the U block. Otherwise I believe they should all be serial numbered to the gun. Code 122 magazines in the early letter blocks and then the fxo magazines.

06-13-2001, 11:09 PM	#8
mac Guest Posts: n/a	Re: P.08, byf, 1941 "Black Stocks" The pistol had two magazines with the serial number on them when it left the factory but few kept the original magazines over the decades. The original byf 41's often had black bakelite stocks. I have heard of one with brown bakelite stocks but that is rare if not unknown. The old collector's rule of thumb is 80% byf41's were wood stocks and 20% were black bakelite. In the 1960's a lot of lugers got black Franzite brand stocks. These look superficially like the originals but have Franzite on the back surface. Be sure to check the firing pin and hold open latch for matching serial number.

06-14-2001, 05:32 AM	#9
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: P.08, byf, 1941 "Black Stocks" Hello Luke, Welcome to the Luger Forum, we are certainly glad to have you and we want you to come back anytime! The suffix letter is very difficult sometimes to read. If you will look in the "Technical Information" section, then "Markings", then "Letter Suffixes", you will find two different Old German alphabets. This will help you determine exactly which letter you have. Congratulations on the Luger. I also have one of the 1941 "Blackwidow" Lugers. Marvin

06-14-2001, 06:12 AM	#10
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 7 Posts	Re: P.08, byf, 1941 "Black Stocks" Another member was helpful in showing me the error in my reading of the serial number script letter. It appears it is a lower-case German "n" rather than an "h" as I had originally thought. From your comments, an "n" would be consistent with known information about the "byf" 41. I am sure I will have many more questions as I get into this and I am really glad that I found you guys on this forum. THANKS FOR ALL THE GREAT COMMENTS. Luke