Breech Block Blown

Thor · 02-15-2003, 07:24 PM

Another sad story tonight, a guy calls me telling me he needs a new breechblock! A WWI MATCHED Erfurt! EGADS! Blown firing pin, gas escaped and shoved the heck out of the firing pin back into the breechblock pushing the end of the firing pin retain out shearing the back end of the breechblock! Come on guys!! WISE UP! Take ol Luke's advice (he has mentioned this many times) and if you are going to shoot these WWI Erfurts and DWMS, replace the firing pin with a VENTED type for the shooting session! It can save you grief in the furture if you blow a primer. It takes about a minute to change them out with just a flat bladed screw driver, or loading tool! Heck, I do them with my thumb alone. IT IS EASY! In a related story! The Last Luger I did a timed detail strip on was Greg Kilburn's 1921 DWM. I had that puppy from fully assembled ready to go Down to it's component parts in 9 minutes flat (and small parts even bagged) ! I know darn good and well that Tom Heller could do it in half that much time! Listen guys, Tom can get you a vented firing pin that will save you a lot of sorrow during those shooting sessions! Drop him an Email!

unspellable · 02-16-2003, 01:50 PM

Thor,

How effective is the firing pin relief for preventing this sort of damage? If it is effective it would surely be worth while before experimenting with hot loads. For this reason I got a couple from Lugerdoc. How ever, I have heard a theory that the cutouts were to allow the escape of air from in front of an overly well lubed firing pin to prevent misfires.

Thor · 02-16-2003, 05:08 PM

I have no idea how effective it is, but it sure seems like a good idea and the design must be considered an improvement or why would they do it. I have read both theories, but I have also seen blown breechblocks, it AINT PURTY!

Armin · 02-18-2003, 12:21 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Thor:
Another sad story tonight, a guy calls me telling me he needs a new breechblock! A WWI MATCHED Erfurt! EGADS! Blown firing pin, gas escaped and shoved the heck out of the firing pin back into the breechblock pushing the end of the firing pin retain out shearing the back end of the breechblock! Come on guys!! WISE UP! Take ol Luke's advice (he has mentioned this many times) and if you are going to shoot these WWI Erfurts and DWMS, replace the firing pin with a VENTED type for the shooting session! It can save you grief in the furture if you blow a primer. It takes about a minute to change them out with just a flat bladed screw driver, or loading tool! Heck, I do them with my thumb alone. IT IS EASY! In a related story! The Last Luger I did a timed detail strip on was Greg Kilburn's 1921 DWM. I had that puppy from fully assembled ready to go Down to it's component parts in 9 minutes flat (and small parts even bagged) ! I know darn good and well that Tom Heller could do it in half that much time! Listen guys, Tom can get you a vented firing pin that will save you a lot of sorrow during those shooting sessions! Drop him an Email!<hr /></blockquote>

Armin · 02-18-2003, 12:42 AM

Thor,
the disaster you described above happened to my reblued but all-matching S/42 G-date Luger last year. One evening at the range after having fired some 30 or 40 rounds through the gun, the firing pin retainer broke out of the breech block. What happened to my gun that has a vented firing pin? In my opinion the breech block is one of the weak parts of a Luger. I think that compared to an unused Luger the system (barrel, receiver etc...) of a partially worn-out one moves some microns farther back during the reloading action and with that the toggle movement goes on slightly farther. As a consequence the breech block moves closer to the back side of the frame and finally knocks against it. One can see the mark of the breech block in many Lugers especially in those that are blued internally. Taking into account the dainty retainer joint in the breech block, I think that repeated knocks can break it. One has to keep in mind that old steel loses its strength due to recrystallization effects.
My G-date has a non matching breech block now, but it still shoots very very accurately and I still love it. What are your comments ?
Just my two eurocents, Armin.

unspellable · 02-18-2003, 11:54 AM

While shooting some 25 ACP factory loads I had a misfire. Upon examining the cartridge I found the primer had been inserted sideways. Imagine the reults if this thing had gone off, especially given the non-existant gas handling capabilities of the average 25 ACP pistol.

Vlim · 03-06-2003, 07:10 AM

Hi,

Just checked my M11 last night. I was under the impression that the firing pin was of the newer vented type, because of a late 1930's renovation. To my surprise it was the original old type, numbered equally to the rest of the breech parts.

I asked Tom to qoute me on a new, vented, one

Thanks guys,

Lugerdoc · 03-06-2003, 08:08 AM

I do have to agree with Armind. A vented firing pin is always good insurance for lugers that you shoot, but if the recoil spring is too weak for the ammo that you are using, all bets are off. Please check out your shooters. I've seen several where unqualified persons put a 9mm top on a 7.65mm spring equipted lower. This can only lead to problems. Tom H.

John Sabato · 03-06-2003, 08:13 AM

Sounds like a new wolfe recoil spring is cheap insurance to me! You can always keep the old one if originality matters on your shooter.

Luke · 03-06-2003, 10:46 AM

Thor,

Funny coincidence that you should have mentioned my name in regard to fluted firing pins; I just received another one from Tom Heller this morning for my latest DWM shooter . . . . installed BEFORE ever firing the gun.

Perhaps it could be argued that fluting was introduced for another reason or that it is not a big problem, but it is really cheap insurance.
Blown breech blocks are neither cheap nor safe.

Regards,
Luke

HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr · 04-06-2003, 02:01 AM

Hi

The breachblocks are fairly easy to weld, and they can be welded without having it's orignal colour destryed.
I use to turn out a cupperpin that fits in tight where the firing pin should sit and weld it with a TIG weld.
But I have done it with a gastorch as well.
Preferably the breach block should be preheated and annealed afterwards in the oven.

The bigest problem I have seen with blown primers on lugers are caused by worn firin pins with sharp corners at the front.
So actually the chepest insurance for not having this to happend is to polish the end of the firing pin if its not perfectly round and having craters.

Best Regards HÃ?Â¥kan

02-15-2003, 07:24 PM	#1
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Breech Block Blown Another sad story tonight, a guy calls me telling me he needs a new breechblock! A WWI MATCHED Erfurt! EGADS! Blown firing pin, gas escaped and shoved the heck out of the firing pin back into the breechblock pushing the end of the firing pin retain out shearing the back end of the breechblock! Come on guys!! WISE UP! Take ol Luke's advice (he has mentioned this many times) and if you are going to shoot these WWI Erfurts and DWMS, replace the firing pin with a VENTED type for the shooting session! It can save you grief in the furture if you blow a primer. It takes about a minute to change them out with just a flat bladed screw driver, or loading tool! Heck, I do them with my thumb alone. IT IS EASY! In a related story! The Last Luger I did a timed detail strip on was Greg Kilburn's 1921 DWM. I had that puppy from fully assembled ready to go Down to it's component parts in 9 minutes flat (and small parts even bagged) ! I know darn good and well that Tom Heller could do it in half that much time! Listen guys, Tom can get you a vented firing pin that will save you a lot of sorrow during those shooting sessions! Drop him an Email! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

02-16-2003, 05:08 PM	#3
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I have no idea how effective it is, but it sure seems like a good idea and the design must be considered an improvement or why would they do it. I have read both theories, but I have also seen blown breechblocks, it AINT PURTY! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

02-18-2003, 12:21 AM	#4
Armin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 6 Posts	</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Originally posted by Thor: <strong>Another sad story tonight, a guy calls me telling me he needs a new breechblock! A WWI MATCHED Erfurt! EGADS! Blown firing pin, gas escaped and shoved the heck out of the firing pin back into the breechblock pushing the end of the firing pin retain out shearing the back end of the breechblock! Come on guys!! WISE UP! Take ol Luke's advice (he has mentioned this many times) and if you are going to shoot these WWI Erfurts and DWMS, replace the firing pin with a VENTED type for the shooting session! It can save you grief in the furture if you blow a primer. It takes about a minute to change them out with just a flat bladed screw driver, or loading tool! Heck, I do them with my thumb alone. IT IS EASY! In a related story! The Last Luger I did a timed detail strip on was Greg Kilburn's 1921 DWM. I had that puppy from fully assembled ready to go Down to it's component parts in 9 minutes flat (and small parts even bagged) ! I know darn good and well that Tom Heller could do it in half that much time! Listen guys, Tom can get you a vented firing pin that will save you a lot of sorrow during those shooting sessions! Drop him an Email!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">

03-06-2003, 08:08 AM	#8
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	I do have to agree with Armind. A vented firing pin is always good insurance for lugers that you shoot, but if the recoil spring is too weak for the ammo that you are using, all bets are off. Please check out your shooters. I've seen several where unqualified persons put a 9mm top on a 7.65mm spring equipted lower. This can only lead to problems. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

03-06-2003, 08:13 AM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Sounds like a new wolfe recoil spring is cheap insurance to me! You can always keep the old one if originality matters on your shooter. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-16-2003, 01:50 PM	#2
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	Thor, How effective is the firing pin relief for preventing this sort of damage? If it is effective it would surely be worth while before experimenting with hot loads. For this reason I got a couple from Lugerdoc. How ever, I have heard a theory that the cutouts were to allow the escape of air from in front of an overly well lubed firing pin to prevent misfires.

02-18-2003, 12:42 AM	#5
Armin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Germany Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 11 Times in 6 Posts	Thor, the disaster you described above happened to my reblued but all-matching S/42 G-date Luger last year. One evening at the range after having fired some 30 or 40 rounds through the gun, the firing pin retainer broke out of the breech block. What happened to my gun that has a vented firing pin? In my opinion the breech block is one of the weak parts of a Luger. I think that compared to an unused Luger the system (barrel, receiver etc...) of a partially worn-out one moves some microns farther back during the reloading action and with that the toggle movement goes on slightly farther. As a consequence the breech block moves closer to the back side of the frame and finally knocks against it. One can see the mark of the breech block in many Lugers especially in those that are blued internally. Taking into account the dainty retainer joint in the breech block, I think that repeated knocks can break it. One has to keep in mind that old steel loses its strength due to recrystallization effects. My G-date has a non matching breech block now, but it still shoots very very accurately and I still love it. What are your comments ? Just my two eurocents, Armin.

02-18-2003, 11:54 AM	#6
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	While shooting some 25 ACP factory loads I had a misfire. Upon examining the cartridge I found the primer had been inserted sideways. Imagine the reults if this thing had gone off, especially given the non-existant gas handling capabilities of the average 25 ACP pistol.

03-06-2003, 07:10 AM	#7
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,988 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, Just checked my M11 last night. I was under the impression that the firing pin was of the newer vented type, because of a late 1930's renovation. To my surprise it was the original old type, numbered equally to the rest of the breech parts. I asked Tom to qoute me on a new, vented, one Thanks guys,

03-06-2003, 10:46 AM	#10
Luke User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: NC - USA Posts: 1,239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 18 Times in 6 Posts	Thor, Funny coincidence that you should have mentioned my name in regard to fluted firing pins; I just received another one from Tom Heller this morning for my latest DWM shooter . . . . installed BEFORE ever firing the gun. Perhaps it could be argued that fluting was introduced for another reason or that it is not a big problem, but it is really cheap insurance. Blown breech blocks are neither cheap nor safe. Regards, Luke __________________ "Peace, if possible; truth, at any cost." . . . Martin Luther

04-06-2003, 02:01 AM	#11
HÃ?Â¥kan Spuhr User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Sweden Posts: 282 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi The breachblocks are fairly easy to weld, and they can be welded without having it's orignal colour destryed. I use to turn out a cupperpin that fits in tight where the firing pin should sit and weld it with a TIG weld. But I have done it with a gastorch as well. Preferably the breach block should be preheated and annealed afterwards in the oven. The bigest problem I have seen with blown primers on lugers are caused by worn firin pins with sharp corners at the front. So actually the chepest insurance for not having this to happend is to polish the end of the firing pin if its not perfectly round and having craters. Best Regards HÃ?Â¥kan