Trouble with my P08...

[Francis Hervieux]

I have a P08 "G" type with a DMW top part [not the original s/42]. Sorry I can't figure the exact name of the parts, but in the "Parts & Disassembly" of this website, the numbers of the diagram do not match the written parts section...

I fired a shot today with it for the first time since I got it (6 years). First shot went well, but all 4 subsequents were dead fuses: the firing pin didn't hit harder the ammo, so they didn't go. Removing the 4th cartridge, my Luger stayed jam like that:
I just can't put it back like I used to, when I disassembled + assembled it before a couple of times before. It's stuck hard, and the spring in the magazine frame is "crushed": impossible for it to get a normal extend in the hand portion. Just like something inside the frame is blocking everything to get back to its normal position after loading or firing. But I can't see what it is, because I can't move the damn top frame!

If anybody can help me somehow, please answer on this board. I can't see what I can do to fix this, as I never had such a problem before. It would be a shame to scrap this nice gun only after that...

[Thor]

I would take the grips off and look inside a bit before I got too excited.

[lugerholsterrepair]

Francis, Is the magazine out of the weapon? Perhaps the holdopen spring is holding the toggle back. Place an empty magazine into the pistol and try to pull back on the toggle and let it go.

To the rest of the Forum, This seems elementary but maybe Francis is not familiar with the P-08 operation? Hard to tell from here. Jerry Burney

[Lugerdoc]

Francis, Your problem sounds like a weak or broken HO spring. With the toggle in the open position, as shown in your photo, and magazine removed, use a screw driver to push the hold open device down from the top. This should then allow your toggle to close. Best to hold on to the the toggle assy, while doing this operation, so that it doesn't "eat" your fingers. TH

[John Sabato]

Please let us know if you are successful in lowering your toggle... there must be no magazine in the gun in order for this to happen.

[Francis Hervieux]

I tried anything I could with and without the mag, and I already removed the hand grips to check everything (that's how I saw that the spring in the hand was squeezed hard, instead of a natural extended position). I'm not a big connaisseur in a matter of gun: this is the only one I've ever touched. But I disassembled it and put it back together a couple of time in the past, without problem, just to see and understand how the parts interract which each others. And right now, I just can't figure out why it's stuck like that. I must precise that every ammo were shot as single when I tested the firing: not with a full mag, but each time one bullet at the time. The mag may be older than the P08 for what I know (wooden base with markings & repair), so I wasn't sure it was good enough to be fully loaded.

Thanks for the advice: I'll check the "hold open device" as proposed , as soon I can find it... ;-)

[lugerholsterrepair]

Francis, The hold open device is inside the breech, in front of where the front of the magazine is. It is on the right and has a little lever that sticks up to block the bolt from going forward after the last cartridge has left the magazine.Look directly in front of the bolt to the bolt face and see if this small sharp object is preventing it's movement. To move this without benifit of a loaded magazine it is possible to pull back slightly on the toggle and push this obstruction down into it's recess with your finger or a pencil with an eraser. This hold open enabled the Soldier to observe that there were no more cartridges in the magazine when it left the toggle in the up position and the mainspring is crushed as you say but ready to accept a new magazine of fresh cartridges. Apon insertion of a full magazine or even a single cartridge in the magazine, the hold open will drop down when tension is released on the toggle by pulling it rearward and thusly the toggle is able to move forward, stripping a new cartridge from the magazine and pushing it thru the breech and into the barrel.

Of course something altogether different than this may be happening. The side rail could be cracked and this is hanging up somewhere. Jerry Burney

Francis, L'appareil d'ouverture de prise est dans la culasse, devant oÃ?¹ le devant de la revue est. C'est sur la droite et a un petit levier qui enfonce en haut bloquer le boulon d'avancer aprÃ?¨s la derniÃ?¨re cartouche a gauche le revue.regard directement devant le boulon Ã?Â* la face de boulon et devant l'Ã?©vÃ?ªchÃ?© si ce petit objet aigu empÃ?ªche c'est le mouvement. Se pour dÃ?©placer ceci sans benifit d'une revue chargÃ?©e c'est possible ramener en arriÃ?¨re lÃ?©gÃ?¨rement sur le bascule et appuie sur cette obstruction dans c'est le replis avec votre doigt ou un crayon avec une gomme. Cette ouverture de prise a rendu capable le Soldat pour observer que cela il y avait non plus de cartouches dans la revue quand il part le bascule dans l'en haut position et le mainspring est Ã?©crasÃ?© comme vous dites mais prÃ?ªt Ã?Â* accepter une nouvelle revue de cartouches fraÃ?®ches. L'insertion de Apon d'une revue pleine ou mÃ?ªme une cartouche seule dans la revue, l'ouverture de prise tombera en bas quand la tension est relÃ?¢chÃ?©e sur le bascule en le tirant l'arriÃ?¨re et ainsiment le bascule peut s'avancer, dÃ?©pouillant une nouvelle cartouche de la revue et le poussant Ã?Â* la culasse et dans le baril.

Bien s�»r quelque chose enti�¨rement diff�©rent que ceci peut arriver. La barre de c�´t�© pourrait �ªtre craqu�©e et ceci raccroche quelque part.

[John Sabato]

I hope that this illustration of how the holdopen works will assist you in repairing your Luger. The basis of this diagram are the excellent illustrations in the Luger Mechanical Features E-Book by Gerard Henrotin. A fine book that will explain much. It only costs about $7 US to download and will provide much explanation about your Luger. I highly recommend this book to new Luger owners.

You can obtain this E-book here:

http://users.skynet.be/HL-Editions/ebook/future.htm

Now onto the explanation:



The top illustration shows the holdopen device installed in the Luger frame (red portion does the work, the spring keeps it in the down position when there is not an empty magazine in place.)

When the last shot is fired from a magazine, or the toggle is drawn back with an empty magazine in place, the magazine buttion pushes upward on the holdopen device placing the end into the notch on the underside of the breechblock. Once the magazine is withdrawn you "should" be able to pull back on the toggle and release the holdopen device so that the breechblock can move forward and close. If this is not happening, perhaps your holdopen spring is broken or missing or improperly installed.

Open the takedown lever... then Holding the frame in one hand and with the other hand pull back on the toggle as far as it will go and with your THIRD HAND press down on the exposed part of the holdopen with a pencil or screwdriver(not your finger).

The holdopen is shown in red in the top illustration) and you should be able to lower your toggle and disassemble your Luger.

Good Luck and let us know how you make out with this... I hope this explanation has been helpful.

[Francis Hervieux]

Good news everybody! Thanks to the advice + illustrations, the problem was solved! My P08 is back to normal, after I got my third hand into function: it was the hold open latch that kept the toggle back...

Unfortunately, I'm afraid that the hold open spring might have a defect(or the mag is too old), since I never saw it work as supposed. But I don't mind too much, now that I'm aware of it. This Luger was bought mostly for collection purpose than shooting practice, so I can live with that. I sure know more about it now, and will learn again from other people like you in the future.

Here's what it looks like (picture taken 4 years ago):
http://www.internet.uqam.ca/web/t9235/p08a.jpg
And how far I went back to check out the pieces then:
http://www.internet.uqam.ca/web/t9235/p08b.jpg

If I can make all numbers match now, it will be perfect for me! Only the toggle parts are not like the other ones: the original portion must have been replaced in the past for whatever reason.

[John Sabato]

Great news Francis, Glad I could help.

You can try bending the spring slightly so that it has more of tendency to keep the holdopen in the down position... this will likely fix your problem... Just hold the holdopen and the spring in a vise at the point where the spring is attached so you don't break off the end and then bend the tail slightly down... then make sure the holdopen is properly inserted into the slot provided for the spring in the receiver when you install it and all should be okay.

P.S. Finding a toggle with the appropriate digits to match the rest of your gun doesn't make it all matching, just all the same number... Only all of the original parts it had when it left the factory would make it all matching and obviously the original part was damaged and replaced....I wouldn't bother. Just enjoy it for what it is ... a Luger!

[Thor]

I have broken a few of these springs trying to bend them, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesnt. A replacement spring is hard to find but that is what I would look for if the spring is not working right.