Unusual 1915 Holster

Big Norm · 09-27-2004, 04:30 AM

I just got back from a gun show with a nice 1918 DWM army Luger. I also got an unusual 1915 holster with it and I have a few questions about it for the experts.

Under the flap there is the embossed manufacturers markings of "J.M.ECKART, 1915, ULM ^D.". Then there is an ink stamped in large lettering "J.R.120'. Is this some sort of unit marking?

Another question is about the pull strap. Instead of the usual leather pull strap, this one has an olive green, CANVAS pull strap. I have never seen this before but the seller insisted that this was an original strap of a holster that was taken off of a german soldier in a concentration camp during the war. Whoever did it did a nice job and the holster is in excellent condition. So I don't think that someone would have replaced a pull strap on a holster that was in such good condition.
Big Norm

George Anderson · 09-27-2004, 08:00 AM

120th Infantry Regiment. Canvas(woven) pull ups can be original on WWI holsters.

lugerholsterrepair · 09-27-2004, 11:26 AM

Big Norm, George is correct. I have seen many of these in WW1 4" and Artillery holsters sent to my shop for repair. They are original to the holster. They are an olive green and quite course woven canvas type material. If I remember correctly the knot at the end is not tied like the leather but folded over and sewn.

George, Your belt will go out today, Monday. I don't know if my last Email got through to you...Thanks for the end keeper! Jerry Burney

Big Norm · 09-27-2004, 01:52 PM

Jerry and George,
thanks a lot for the information. It looks like my purchase of the 1918 army DWM is looking better all the time. Jerry Peters and Sam Bushami got to this gun show before me and picked it cleam before I could get my act together. But I found this guy walking around trying to sell this rig to dealers and I worked out a deal. Because this holsters leather is so nice and the markings so crisp, I initially thought that this was an after market repair job. I passed on it at first but then I saw the guy later and was still thinking about the gun. Everything about this rig just seemed to stick in my mind during the show and I played a hunch.

I might also have found a hard to find 1914 artillery holster with a matching magazine pouch. Its a bit pricy but it would work in nicely with one of my 1914 DWM artilleries. This deal is still up in the air at the moment. I still have to see what all I am getting for the money.
Big Norm

Fritzer · 09-27-2004, 04:17 PM

Norm,

Was this a large show in our area that I missed out on?
I'm sure you guys are in a different class alltogether - as far as collecting, but it's always nice to LOOK !!

Fritz.

Big Norm · 09-27-2004, 09:23 PM

Fritz,
this was the Michigan Antique Arms Collectors show in Novi, Michigan. My understanding is that they only want articles that are pre-1964. Once in a while some interesting stuff comes through there.

This time, the talk of the show was some guy who was carrying a Luger carbine stock that he said that he picked up at a garage sale for $25. He said that some guy died who had a carbine. His widow married another guy who didn't like guns. So he took the carbine to the police department for the $35 turn-in. The officer at the table shoved the carbine under the table. A few weeks later, the officer went to the guys house and asked if there was a wood piece about a foot long that might go with the gun. The guy put two and two together and reported the officer to his superior and the officer got fired. The guy then put the stock on the table at his garage sale where it was sold to the guy at the gun show. Ah, the things that make up legends. Anyway, that is what the guy with the stock told everybody.

The next show will be November 27-28th. Thats the middle of deer season so I won't be there unless I get a deer early. It is really a small show but it beats any of the Doug Carls shows by a mile for occassionally finding something. I think that it is the best that Michigan has to offer. Bob Feit was there once and said that he lost money and wouldn't go back again. But Luger collectors that I know from SE Michigan like it.

A lot of guys that I know in Michigan are going to quit the Ohio Gun Collectors Assn show in southern Ohio. They think that Willmington, Ohio is just too far to go. The aisles are too narrow and crowded to see what are on the tables. I think that I am going to start going to the Louisville, Kentucky show to see what is happening there. For me, its about the same distance and the OGCA show looks like its going down hill.

I took a trip to Alpena, Michigan to see Bob's Gun Shop on M32. That is a first class shop and the owner was a real nice guy. Its like a minature Cabella's but more homey. When I got there, the owner was on the telephone. When he saw my LugerForum hat, he reached over and pulled out two Lugers and laid them out on the show case for me without getting off of the phone.

Big Norm

John Sabato · 09-28-2004, 09:37 AM

Norm, we need a photo of you in that Lugerforum Hat for your avatar

Fritzer · 09-28-2004, 04:27 PM

Norm,

I believe you've commented on the Novi show before, and someone else has told me about the Michigan Antique Arms Collectors shows as well. I just never put the two together. I'll try to make the November date.

Our deer camp is a little south-east of Gaylord, so maybe a jog over to Alpena isn't out of the question. The Ohio and Kentucky trips are a bit far for a working slob like me right now...

Thanks for all your tips and info.
(almost turned into a gun show thread

)

Regards,
Fritz.

Big Norm · 09-28-2004, 07:10 PM

Fritz,
I park my motorhome in Atlanta which isn't too far from you. Too bad there isn't a restraunt open past 1PM on Atlanta (yes, I said 1PM or just after noon time). But I got a good fish dinner at the Eagles club in Atlanta. Its only served about once a week (if that). I camp at a buddies house across the street from the Eagles club just across M32. So I don't pay a lot of attention to when the fish dinner is served. I just go when I see the sign up. There is a pretty decent steak dinner at respectible prices at one of the two bars in town on Thursdays. You won't have to pay Garland golf course prices either.

Be careful, the sheriffs office is also across the street from the Eagles club.

My buddy in Atlanta is trying to get me to go to the UP during the second week of deer season. I am thinking about it but I got a doe permit for area 60. My freezer doesn't have any venison. So its all up in the air for me.

I am going up for a week of grouse hunting this month. I have to get 5 or 6 boxes of shells in case there are still leaves on the trees. I never could actually hit those little buggers and I am worse when there are leaves on the trees. I'll need even more shells if the woodcock migration is on ... for the same reason.
Big Norm

John Sabato · 09-29-2004, 10:17 AM

Grouse and doves are probably the most expensive game meat you can put on the table Norm... I know from experience

Big Norm · 09-29-2004, 09:58 PM

John,
you are right. And they are even more expensive when you shoot like me. I am even worse on woodcock. They dipsy when I doodle. Actually, I don't even try for them. If I get one, I am thrilled to death. For me to get two would be beyond belief. Just one would not make a meal for me.
Dove isn't legal in the area that I hunt. Michigan just legalized dove hunting and it is legal only in certain areas. My bird feeder here in SE Michigan has a ton of them. A good rat trap in that feeder might work. Sure would save me a lot of money in ammo.
Grouse sometimes do stupid things. I saw one land behind a log last year. He popped his head above that log one too many times. A second one flew diagionally in front of me to get to a swamp. That gave me a rare chance to lead it and I had my second meal. That was all I got.
One of these days I am going to try turkey. They look big enough for me to hit. We have some non-existant cougers feeding off of them here in Michigan. But they leave enough of those birds to try for. Oh! The DNR says cougers don't exist in Michigan but the natives know better.
Big Norm

John Sabato · 09-30-2004, 09:40 AM

Norm, don't overlook my comment about the photo of you in your Lugerforum hat as a new avatar... (...although I am sure you will say that the current one couldn't get any better... after all the photo is of YOU)

Big Norm · 10-01-2004, 01:43 AM

John,
will do! I might add that Jamese dropped by my home this summer to check out my 1900's and 1906's and he looked pretty terrific in his Lugerforum cap. He is a lot better looking in person than in his photo. When that disaster in Florida passes maybe we be able to get him to take a picture of him in his Lugerforum cap. He is really a nice guy and God has blessed him with a good looking family.
Big Norm

09-27-2004, 04:30 AM	#1
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Unusual 1915 Holster I just got back from a gun show with a nice 1918 DWM army Luger. I also got an unusual 1915 holster with it and I have a few questions about it for the experts. Under the flap there is the embossed manufacturers markings of "J.M.ECKART, 1915, ULM ^D.". Then there is an ink stamped in large lettering "J.R.120'. Is this some sort of unit marking? Another question is about the pull strap. Instead of the usual leather pull strap, this one has an olive green, CANVAS pull strap. I have never seen this before but the seller insisted that this was an original strap of a holster that was taken off of a german soldier in a concentration camp during the war. Whoever did it did a nice job and the holster is in excellent condition. So I don't think that someone would have replaced a pull strap on a holster that was in such good condition. Big Norm

09-27-2004, 11:26 AM	#3
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Big Norm, George is correct. I have seen many of these in WW1 4" and Artillery holsters sent to my shop for repair. They are original to the holster. They are an olive green and quite course woven canvas type material. If I remember correctly the knot at the end is not tied like the leather but folded over and sewn. George, Your belt will go out today, Monday. I don't know if my last Email got through to you...Thanks for the end keeper! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

09-28-2004, 09:37 AM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Norm, we need a photo of you in that Lugerforum Hat for your avatar __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-29-2004, 10:17 AM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Grouse and doves are probably the most expensive game meat you can put on the table Norm... I know from experience __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-30-2004, 09:40 AM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Norm, don't overlook my comment about the photo of you in your Lugerforum hat as a new avatar... (...although I am sure you will say that the current one couldn't get any better... after all the photo is of YOU) __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

09-27-2004, 08:00 AM	#2
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	120th Infantry Regiment. Canvas(woven) pull ups can be original on WWI holsters.

09-27-2004, 01:52 PM	#4
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Jerry and George, thanks a lot for the information. It looks like my purchase of the 1918 army DWM is looking better all the time. Jerry Peters and Sam Bushami got to this gun show before me and picked it cleam before I could get my act together. But I found this guy walking around trying to sell this rig to dealers and I worked out a deal. Because this holsters leather is so nice and the markings so crisp, I initially thought that this was an after market repair job. I passed on it at first but then I saw the guy later and was still thinking about the gun. Everything about this rig just seemed to stick in my mind during the show and I played a hunch. I might also have found a hard to find 1914 artillery holster with a matching magazine pouch. Its a bit pricy but it would work in nicely with one of my 1914 DWM artilleries. This deal is still up in the air at the moment. I still have to see what all I am getting for the money. Big Norm

09-27-2004, 04:17 PM	#5
Fritzer User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 134 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Norm, Was this a large show in our area that I missed out on? I'm sure you guys are in a different class alltogether - as far as collecting, but it's always nice to LOOK !! Fritz.

09-27-2004, 09:23 PM	#6
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Fritz, this was the Michigan Antique Arms Collectors show in Novi, Michigan. My understanding is that they only want articles that are pre-1964. Once in a while some interesting stuff comes through there. This time, the talk of the show was some guy who was carrying a Luger carbine stock that he said that he picked up at a garage sale for $25. He said that some guy died who had a carbine. His widow married another guy who didn't like guns. So he took the carbine to the police department for the $35 turn-in. The officer at the table shoved the carbine under the table. A few weeks later, the officer went to the guys house and asked if there was a wood piece about a foot long that might go with the gun. The guy put two and two together and reported the officer to his superior and the officer got fired. The guy then put the stock on the table at his garage sale where it was sold to the guy at the gun show. Ah, the things that make up legends. Anyway, that is what the guy with the stock told everybody. The next show will be November 27-28th. Thats the middle of deer season so I won't be there unless I get a deer early. It is really a small show but it beats any of the Doug Carls shows by a mile for occassionally finding something. I think that it is the best that Michigan has to offer. Bob Feit was there once and said that he lost money and wouldn't go back again. But Luger collectors that I know from SE Michigan like it. A lot of guys that I know in Michigan are going to quit the Ohio Gun Collectors Assn show in southern Ohio. They think that Willmington, Ohio is just too far to go. The aisles are too narrow and crowded to see what are on the tables. I think that I am going to start going to the Louisville, Kentucky show to see what is happening there. For me, its about the same distance and the OGCA show looks like its going down hill. I took a trip to Alpena, Michigan to see Bob's Gun Shop on M32. That is a first class shop and the owner was a real nice guy. Its like a minature Cabella's but more homey. When I got there, the owner was on the telephone. When he saw my LugerForum hat, he reached over and pulled out two Lugers and laid them out on the show case for me without getting off of the phone. Big Norm

09-28-2004, 04:27 PM	#8
Fritzer User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Michigan Posts: 134 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Norm, I believe you've commented on the Novi show before, and someone else has told me about the Michigan Antique Arms Collectors shows as well. I just never put the two together. I'll try to make the November date. Our deer camp is a little south-east of Gaylord, so maybe a jog over to Alpena isn't out of the question. The Ohio and Kentucky trips are a bit far for a working slob like me right now... Thanks for all your tips and info. (almost turned into a gun show thread ) Regards, Fritz.

09-28-2004, 07:10 PM	#9
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Fritz, I park my motorhome in Atlanta which isn't too far from you. Too bad there isn't a restraunt open past 1PM on Atlanta (yes, I said 1PM or just after noon time). But I got a good fish dinner at the Eagles club in Atlanta. Its only served about once a week (if that). I camp at a buddies house across the street from the Eagles club just across M32. So I don't pay a lot of attention to when the fish dinner is served. I just go when I see the sign up. There is a pretty decent steak dinner at respectible prices at one of the two bars in town on Thursdays. You won't have to pay Garland golf course prices either. Be careful, the sheriffs office is also across the street from the Eagles club. My buddy in Atlanta is trying to get me to go to the UP during the second week of deer season. I am thinking about it but I got a doe permit for area 60. My freezer doesn't have any venison. So its all up in the air for me. I am going up for a week of grouse hunting this month. I have to get 5 or 6 boxes of shells in case there are still leaves on the trees. I never could actually hit those little buggers and I am worse when there are leaves on the trees. I'll need even more shells if the woodcock migration is on ... for the same reason. Big Norm

09-29-2004, 09:58 PM	#11
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	John, you are right. And they are even more expensive when you shoot like me. I am even worse on woodcock. They dipsy when I doodle. Actually, I don't even try for them. If I get one, I am thrilled to death. For me to get two would be beyond belief. Just one would not make a meal for me. Dove isn't legal in the area that I hunt. Michigan just legalized dove hunting and it is legal only in certain areas. My bird feeder here in SE Michigan has a ton of them. A good rat trap in that feeder might work. Sure would save me a lot of money in ammo. Grouse sometimes do stupid things. I saw one land behind a log last year. He popped his head above that log one too many times. A second one flew diagionally in front of me to get to a swamp. That gave me a rare chance to lead it and I had my second meal. That was all I got. One of these days I am going to try turkey. They look big enough for me to hit. We have some non-existant cougers feeding off of them here in Michigan. But they leave enough of those birds to try for. Oh! The DNR says cougers don't exist in Michigan but the natives know better. Big Norm

10-01-2004, 01:43 AM	#13
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	John, will do! I might add that Jamese dropped by my home this summer to check out my 1900's and 1906's and he looked pretty terrific in his Lugerforum cap. He is a lot better looking in person than in his photo. When that disaster in Florida passes maybe we be able to get him to take a picture of him in his Lugerforum cap. He is really a nice guy and God has blessed him with a good looking family. Big Norm