Value on 1920 Navy Commercial?

Aaron · 04-23-2003, 04:44 PM

A Luger has come up for sale which appears to be a 1920 Navy Commercial Luger in 9mm. It has no grip safety, so I assume it to have started out as a 1914 Navy. Serial number is 3121b. with all numbers matching on the frame, barrel, safety, and rear toggle. I did not dissassemble the pistol, so I cannot vouch for the internal serials. The sideplate is blank, as is the chamber and the toggle, so there is no indication of the manufacturer. The frame bears the barrel is crown proofed, and the left side of the frame is proofed crown, crown/M, crown/M. The barrel has a crown proof, but no proofs anywhere else.Finish is about 90% with a lot of touch up blue here and there. Bore is poor, magazine is numbered WWI wood bottom type, non-matching with a crack through the wood bottom. Asking price is $985. Is this out of line?

Aaron · 04-23-2003, 04:48 PM

Sorry I botched up the previous posting. All proofs are on the left side of the frame and the barrel, also a crown on the forward toggle link.

Edward Tinker · 04-23-2003, 05:22 PM

Aaron, I am not sure, the price sounds pretty good to me?

You can always correct any mistakes by clicking on the pencil and paper icon just att eh top of each post and change anything you botched.

Happens to me all the time, usually when I misspell something and don't catch it.

Ed

Navy · 04-23-2003, 09:19 PM

Hi Aaron,
The price is reasonable. You could part the gun out and get $600 or so for the rear sight; the mag would bring $150 or so even with the crack. The rest..well, you be the judge.
If I had a shot at it at that price, I would buy it and remove the touch-up blue (Lemon juice works well) to assess the condition,
Afterwards, I would decide to restore or keep as is.

Any grip strap markings?

Tom A.

Aaron · 04-23-2003, 10:27 PM

No grip strap markings. Navys are not really in my field of interest, so I will try and get you some photos and pass the deal on to you if you want it.

Big Norm · 04-24-2003, 02:13 AM

Arron,
the absence of a manufactures mark on the toggle bugs me and I have no answer for that. Check the books to see if you have a long frame or a short frame. If your gun has a long frame then you could have a 1908 navy. They did not have a chamber date on them. The double crown/M on the left side of the receiver suggests that it is not a commercial but not absolutely. A commercial would most likely have a single crown/N on the left side. Look on the bottom of the front of the side plate to see if a serial number is there.

See page 211 of John Walters "The Luger Book". He says, "In addition to the prewar examples that can justifiably claim to be genuine navy commercial Parabellums, some post 1920 guns were made from canniblized parts."

The $985 price is a good price. But I would study up on the gun before I messed with it too much. The 1908 commercial was not a big seller and I believe you will find some variance of manufacture. Also study up on the post war variances. A lot of things happened during the 1908 period and in the post war period in the commercial market. You may have something thrown together but you may not.
Big Norm

Aaron · 04-24-2003, 02:30 AM

As I said, I'm not very excited over Navy Lugers, but you have made me curious. I will try to post some photos and let you experts talk it out.

Big Norm · 04-24-2003, 10:38 PM

Arron,
YOU AREN"T EXCITED OVER NAVIES!!! ARRRRG! You may have tripped over something real good at a good price. I would follow Tom A's advice on this gun and take a good long look at this one. I really would like to see a bunch of pictures of it while I still have my composure. I have an optimistic vision of it and what I would like to do with it.
Big Norm

04-23-2003, 04:44 PM	#1
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Value on 1920 Navy Commercial? A Luger has come up for sale which appears to be a 1920 Navy Commercial Luger in 9mm. It has no grip safety, so I assume it to have started out as a 1914 Navy. Serial number is 3121b. with all numbers matching on the frame, barrel, safety, and rear toggle. I did not dissassemble the pistol, so I cannot vouch for the internal serials. The sideplate is blank, as is the chamber and the toggle, so there is no indication of the manufacturer. The frame bears the barrel is crown proofed, and the left side of the frame is proofed crown, crown/M, crown/M. The barrel has a crown proof, but no proofs anywhere else.Finish is about 90% with a lot of touch up blue here and there. Bore is poor, magazine is numbered WWI wood bottom type, non-matching with a crack through the wood bottom. Asking price is $985. Is this out of line?

04-23-2003, 05:22 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Aaron, I am not sure, the price sounds pretty good to me? You can always correct any mistakes by clicking on the pencil and paper icon just att eh top of each post and change anything you botched. Happens to me all the time, usually when I misspell something and don't catch it. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-23-2003, 04:48 PM	#2
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Sorry I botched up the previous posting. All proofs are on the left side of the frame and the barrel, also a crown on the forward toggle link.

04-23-2003, 09:19 PM	#4
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Hi Aaron, The price is reasonable. You could part the gun out and get $600 or so for the rear sight; the mag would bring $150 or so even with the crack. The rest..well, you be the judge. If I had a shot at it at that price, I would buy it and remove the touch-up blue (Lemon juice works well) to assess the condition, Afterwards, I would decide to restore or keep as is. Any grip strap markings? Tom A.

04-23-2003, 10:27 PM	#5
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	No grip strap markings. Navys are not really in my field of interest, so I will try and get you some photos and pass the deal on to you if you want it.

04-24-2003, 02:13 AM	#6
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Arron, the absence of a manufactures mark on the toggle bugs me and I have no answer for that. Check the books to see if you have a long frame or a short frame. If your gun has a long frame then you could have a 1908 navy. They did not have a chamber date on them. The double crown/M on the left side of the receiver suggests that it is not a commercial but not absolutely. A commercial would most likely have a single crown/N on the left side. Look on the bottom of the front of the side plate to see if a serial number is there. See page 211 of John Walters "The Luger Book". He says, "In addition to the prewar examples that can justifiably claim to be genuine navy commercial Parabellums, some post 1920 guns were made from canniblized parts." The $985 price is a good price. But I would study up on the gun before I messed with it too much. The 1908 commercial was not a big seller and I believe you will find some variance of manufacture. Also study up on the post war variances. A lot of things happened during the 1908 period and in the post war period in the commercial market. You may have something thrown together but you may not. Big Norm

04-24-2003, 02:30 AM	#7
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	As I said, I'm not very excited over Navy Lugers, but you have made me curious. I will try to post some photos and let you experts talk it out.

04-24-2003, 10:38 PM	#8
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Arron, YOU AREN"T EXCITED OVER NAVIES!!! ARRRRG! You may have tripped over something real good at a good price. I would follow Tom A's advice on this gun and take a good long look at this one. I really would like to see a bunch of pictures of it while I still have my composure. I have an optimistic vision of it and what I would like to do with it. Big Norm