Navy stock on Ebay

Dwight Gruber · 09-29-2004, 09:26 AM

Is this unit ID disc proper?

Navy stock on Ebay

--Dwight

John Sabato · 09-29-2004, 10:05 AM

It looks legitimate to me Dwight... but wait for one of the big boys like Big Norm, or Tom A. to pass judgement on it...

Navy · 09-29-2004, 01:09 PM

The stock is legit and the marking is Werft Danzig, a rather seldom-seen property mark. The seller is Doug Smith of FGS guns. They have my unqualified recommendation for acurate descriptions, honesty and service.

Tom A.

tracyp · 09-29-2004, 11:38 PM

WOW! It's up over $2K.

Tracy

Dwight Gruber · 09-29-2004, 11:49 PM

Tom,

Thanks for the comment, makes sense now why the characteristics are different from the WK stammps. And at the amount its going for, it makes my stock seem like a real bargain!

--Dwight

Big Norm · 10-01-2004, 12:40 AM

Looked at the pictures of this stock and had decided that this is a hot dog counterfeit out of Arkansas. I wouldn't spend $10 on it. But Ken is a good friend of mine so I will keep my mouth shut.
<img border="0" alt="[soapbox]" title="" src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" />

Hey! Wait a minute. I won the bid!... I take that back. I agree with TomA that this is a treasure and I am so happy that I got it. I am surprised that everybody stopped bidding on it so soon. I inspected this stock at the last OGCA show and would have bought it then except that I blew my cash on something else. But I did notify TomA of its availability via email when I got home.
<img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" />

I also just closed on a purchase of a 1914 artillery holster with a 1914 magazine pouch. They are supposed to be in excellent shape. This should go well with one of my 1914 DWM artilleries or my Erfurt artillery that has a matching stock and magazine. <img border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" title="" src="graemlins/drink.gif" />

What did someone say?...Building a collection one Luger at a time.

But I am financially embarressed at the moment so I cannot attend the OGCA show this week end. I guess that I will just have to sit at home and watch TV as Michigan State Univ.(my Emma Mother) beats someone at football. <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" />

Big Norm <img border="0" alt="[king]" title="" src="graemlins/r.gif" />

John Sabato · 10-01-2004, 09:02 AM

Hearty Congrats Norm! Another piece of history that will be preserved for the generations to come...

Navy · 10-01-2004, 10:44 AM

Congrats Norm,

The Danzig property mark is somewhat unusual; you have a keeper at a reasonable price.
Tom A

Big Norm · 10-01-2004, 09:18 PM

Thanks TomA and John,
If it was really the one that I wrote to TomA about, the price then was $2500. So my $2025 may turn out to be OK. While I have lotsa artillery stocks, this will be my first navy one. I can't wait to see what I got. I just wish that FGS was at the OGCA show this weekend so that I could have drove down there and picked it up. But they decided to go to other shows instead.

TomA, what does "Werft Danzig" mean?

I am also waiting delivery of a 1914 artillery holster with a matching mag pouch. So next week is going to be exciting for me. If this artillery holster turns out OK then I may have a navy holster coming up from the same dealer.

I am still thrilled at a 1915 army holster that I picked up last weekend. I didn't know that I had a real nice treasure until members of the forum told me what I had. Christmas came early this year.
Big Norm

Ron Wood · 10-01-2004, 09:39 PM

Norm,
Since you are now getting into Navies, you need to know that "Werft" is "shipyard", and Danzig is the German name for what is now the Polish port of Gdansk. Danzig marked navies are much less frequently encountered than Werft Kiel, W.K., or Werft Wilhelmshaven, W.W., marked Lugers. As Tom said, you have a keeper. Congrats.

Navy · 10-01-2004, 09:48 PM

Norm, Norm, Norm...

If you gonna' be spending the big dollahs, youse gotta know what you be buyin'

"what does "Werft Danzig" mean?"

Norm,
A werft is literally a shipyard in Imperial German parlance. Actually, it was more like what we would call a Naval Ordnance and Weapons Depot...kinda a "one stop shopping" place for sailors.

"Need your battle cruiser overhauled? We can do it. Need a few hundred Lugers? Not a problem? We can do it. Just Call Krazy Komrad Ludwig at Kaiser 1914 for easy financing"

Jokes off.

Your stock was issued from the Werft at Danzig, now a part of Poland. The Danzig Werft was a relatively small operation compared to Willemshaven and Kiel, so the property mark is one of the scarcer ones. Now your challenge is to find the matching pistol.

A *very* nice score.

Tom A.

Big Norm · 10-01-2004, 10:10 PM

Thank you everyone.
Big Norm

Big Norm · 10-07-2004, 01:15 AM

Ya All,
I got my navy stock today. Its a beauty! The "W.D.231" on the disk is as sharp and clear as if it was made yesterday. The locking lever even still has some strawing on it. The iron had a bit of light pitting but the serial number "6483" is still very clear. The wood has some age dings on it. But it wouldn't be right if it didn't have some of them. The light repair on the wood is not very noticable. I'm really happy with it.

I also got the 1914 artillery holster that I talked about earlier. VERY nice speciment. Unfortunately, the manufacturer stamped the date and his name on the inside of the flap. The date is clear but I have been straining my eyeballs to read the manufacturers name and his city. The leather on the inside of the inside flap is a little course and the stamping was not very deep. Its legible but a real strain to make it out. The light roughness of the inside leather isn't helping me. It amazing to think that this holster and its pouch are 90 years old. I would love to show it to Jerry.

The magazine pouch does not have any manufacturers mark. Its stitching and condition is as excellent as the holsters is. The deep redish brown coloring matches the holsters. This is just an excellent all round holster and mag pouch. Now the search begins to find a stock cup and straps so I can marry it to an Erfurt artillery that I have that has a matching stock and magazine.

The holster came with a cleaning rod too. The holster came it shoulder strap loops but the guy threw in a German belt. I am too excited about the holster to have looked at the belt.

Oh man, I am going to have trouble sleeping tonight.
Big Norm

Pete Ebbink · 10-14-2004, 10:33 PM

Hi Tom A.,

Author C. Kenyon in his 2nd. book, "Luger - The Multinational Pistol" on page 80 states that "W.D." stands for "Werft Division". Similarly..."M.D." for "Matrosen Division".

Does he agree with Werft Danzig, now ?

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Ron Smith · 10-15-2004, 09:34 AM

Pete, Sent you a PM. Ron

Pete Ebbink · 10-15-2004, 06:44 PM

Info. Tom A. sent to me via private email. Tom wanted me to go ahead and post it here...

" There was no Werft Division, There was a werft department (Section B) of the Imperial Naval General Staff in Berlin. It did not issue weapons as it was a staff supervisory agency responsible for top level coordination and management of the entire ship building and re-fitting program. "

" M.D. stands for Matrosen Division. The Matrosen Division was an administrative unit to which sailors were assigned when their vessel was in drydock for prolonged periods or when they had completed trade training and were as yet unassigned to a particular unit. Basically it was a replacementpool/holding organization. "

Thanks, Tom A...!!!

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

09-29-2004, 09:26 AM	#1
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Navy stock on Ebay Is this unit ID disc proper? Navy stock on Ebay --Dwight

09-29-2004, 10:05 AM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	It looks legitimate to me Dwight... but wait for one of the big boys like Big Norm, or Tom A. to pass judgement on it... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-01-2004, 09:02 AM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Hearty Congrats Norm! Another piece of history that will be preserved for the generations to come... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-01-2004, 09:39 PM	#10
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Norm, Since you are now getting into Navies, you need to know that "Werft" is "shipyard", and Danzig is the German name for what is now the Polish port of Gdansk. Danzig marked navies are much less frequently encountered than Werft Kiel, W.K., or Werft Wilhelmshaven, W.W., marked Lugers. As Tom said, you have a keeper. Congrats. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-15-2004, 09:34 AM	#15
Ron Smith User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Orygun Posts: 4,243 Thanks: 118 Thanked 245 Times in 150 Posts	Pete, Sent you a PM. Ron __________________ I Still Need DWM side plate #49... if anyone runs across a nice one. What ~Rudyard Kipling~ said...

09-29-2004, 01:09 PM	#3
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	The stock is legit and the marking is Werft Danzig, a rather seldom-seen property mark. The seller is Doug Smith of FGS guns. They have my unqualified recommendation for acurate descriptions, honesty and service. Tom A.

09-29-2004, 11:38 PM	#4
tracyp User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Peoples Republic of Kalifornia Posts: 391 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	WOW! It's up over $2K. Tracy

09-29-2004, 11:49 PM	#5
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Tom, Thanks for the comment, makes sense now why the characteristics are different from the WK stammps. And at the amount its going for, it makes my stock seem like a real bargain! --Dwight

10-01-2004, 12:40 AM	#6
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Looked at the pictures of this stock and had decided that this is a hot dog counterfeit out of Arkansas. I wouldn't spend $10 on it. But Ken is a good friend of mine so I will keep my mouth shut. <img border="0" alt="[soapbox]" title="" src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" /> Hey! Wait a minute. I won the bid!... I take that back. I agree with TomA that this is a treasure and I am so happy that I got it. I am surprised that everybody stopped bidding on it so soon. I inspected this stock at the last OGCA show and would have bought it then except that I blew my cash on something else. But I did notify TomA of its availability via email when I got home. <img border="0" alt="[hiha]" title="" src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" /> I also just closed on a purchase of a 1914 artillery holster with a 1914 magazine pouch. They are supposed to be in excellent shape. This should go well with one of my 1914 DWM artilleries or my Erfurt artillery that has a matching stock and magazine. <img border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" title="" src="graemlins/drink.gif" /> What did someone say?...Building a collection one Luger at a time. But I am financially embarressed at the moment so I cannot attend the OGCA show this week end. I guess that I will just have to sit at home and watch TV as Michigan State Univ.(my Emma Mother) beats someone at football. <img border="0" alt="[jumper]" title="" src="graemlins/jumper.gif" /> Big Norm <img border="0" alt="[king]" title="" src="graemlins/r.gif" />

10-01-2004, 10:44 AM	#8
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Congrats Norm, The Danzig property mark is somewhat unusual; you have a keeper at a reasonable price. Tom A

10-01-2004, 09:18 PM	#9
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Thanks TomA and John, If it was really the one that I wrote to TomA about, the price then was $2500. So my $2025 may turn out to be OK. While I have lotsa artillery stocks, this will be my first navy one. I can't wait to see what I got. I just wish that FGS was at the OGCA show this weekend so that I could have drove down there and picked it up. But they decided to go to other shows instead. TomA, what does "Werft Danzig" mean? I am also waiting delivery of a 1914 artillery holster with a matching mag pouch. So next week is going to be exciting for me. If this artillery holster turns out OK then I may have a navy holster coming up from the same dealer. I am still thrilled at a 1915 army holster that I picked up last weekend. I didn't know that I had a real nice treasure until members of the forum told me what I had. Christmas came early this year. Big Norm

10-01-2004, 09:48 PM	#11
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Norm, Norm, Norm... If you gonna' be spending the big dollahs, youse gotta know what you be buyin' "what does "Werft Danzig" mean?" Norm, A werft is literally a shipyard in Imperial German parlance. Actually, it was more like what we would call a Naval Ordnance and Weapons Depot...kinda a "one stop shopping" place for sailors. "Need your battle cruiser overhauled? We can do it. Need a few hundred Lugers? Not a problem? We can do it. Just Call Krazy Komrad Ludwig at Kaiser 1914 for easy financing" Jokes off. Your stock was issued from the Werft at Danzig, now a part of Poland. The Danzig Werft was a relatively small operation compared to Willemshaven and Kiel, so the property mark is one of the scarcer ones. Now your challenge is to find the matching pistol. A very nice score. Tom A.

10-01-2004, 10:10 PM	#12
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Thank you everyone. Big Norm

10-07-2004, 01:15 AM	#13
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Ya All, I got my navy stock today. Its a beauty! The "W.D.231" on the disk is as sharp and clear as if it was made yesterday. The locking lever even still has some strawing on it. The iron had a bit of light pitting but the serial number "6483" is still very clear. The wood has some age dings on it. But it wouldn't be right if it didn't have some of them. The light repair on the wood is not very noticable. I'm really happy with it. I also got the 1914 artillery holster that I talked about earlier. VERY nice speciment. Unfortunately, the manufacturer stamped the date and his name on the inside of the flap. The date is clear but I have been straining my eyeballs to read the manufacturers name and his city. The leather on the inside of the inside flap is a little course and the stamping was not very deep. Its legible but a real strain to make it out. The light roughness of the inside leather isn't helping me. It amazing to think that this holster and its pouch are 90 years old. I would love to show it to Jerry. The magazine pouch does not have any manufacturers mark. Its stitching and condition is as excellent as the holsters is. The deep redish brown coloring matches the holsters. This is just an excellent all round holster and mag pouch. Now the search begins to find a stock cup and straps so I can marry it to an Erfurt artillery that I have that has a matching stock and magazine. The holster came with a cleaning rod too. The holster came it shoulder strap loops but the guy threw in a German belt. I am too excited about the holster to have looked at the belt. Oh man, I am going to have trouble sleeping tonight. Big Norm

10-14-2004, 10:33 PM	#14
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hi Tom A., Author C. Kenyon in his 2nd. book, "Luger - The Multinational Pistol" on page 80 states that "W.D." stands for "Werft Division". Similarly..."M.D." for "Matrosen Division". Does he agree with Werft Danzig, now ? Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

10-15-2004, 06:44 PM	#16
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Info. Tom A. sent to me via private email. Tom wanted me to go ahead and post it here... " There was no Werft Division, There was a werft department (Section B) of the Imperial Naval General Staff in Berlin. It did not issue weapons as it was a staff supervisory agency responsible for top level coordination and management of the entire ship building and re-fitting program. " " M.D. stands for Matrosen Division. The Matrosen Division was an administrative unit to which sailors were assigned when their vessel was in drydock for prolonged periods or when they had completed trade training and were as yet unassigned to a particular unit. Basically it was a replacementpool/holding organization. " Thanks, Tom A...!!! Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />