FFL for delivery of Luger From Shattuck, World of Lugers

Jerry G. · 08-21-2002, 11:21 PM

Today I struck a deal on a Luger with Ralph Shattuck in Arizona. As I live in Kansas City I need to have the gun shipped to a FFL holder. Anyone know of such a person in my area? I suppose any firearms dealer will work with me on this. Thoughts?

Herb · 08-21-2002, 11:28 PM

Jerry, most dealers will accept your purchase. The normal charge is cost+10%. I suggest that you get a C&R license, it's easy and saves the charges by a dealer.

wterrell · 08-21-2002, 11:30 PM

Jerry,

Go to Gunbroker.com and click on the "For Buyers" link at the top. On this page will be a link to search for FFL holders in your ZIP code or city. These people have agreed to do business of receiving guns for people.

There will be dealers in your area that will probably help you for $20-25.

http://www.gunbroker.com/

Edward Tinker · 08-21-2002, 11:44 PM

Wes, that is exactly what I did and it worked for me before I got my C&R! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Jerry G. · 08-22-2002, 12:11 AM

Thanks for the info. I found sveral dealers in my area in Gunbroker.

Ron Wood · 08-22-2002, 01:12 AM

Looks like a C&R license is inevitable for some of us collectors. Due to the increasing numbers of individuals purchasing firearms via the internet, dealers who receive them in my area (El Paso) are now charging $45 transfer fee! One dealer says he averages 3 internet weapons per day, many of which have to be sent back because of improper documentation. For him, the increased fee is an attempt to discourage this trade, since the book work and hassle isn't worth it. Considering the $25 shipping fee for overnight required by UPS, this makes buying even a "cheap" firearm a more expensive proposition. Guess I will have to break down and get my C&R license.

Pete Ebbink · 08-22-2002, 01:19 AM

Hello Ron,

The folks here in CA-state charge from $ 75 to $ 100 per FFL transfer.

Since I got my C&R, I think I have purchased nearly 10 guns and saved enough to buy my 1913/1920 Erfurt police luger...

At least that is how I explained that purchase to my wife,...I said it was really a "free" luger...

Of course, she did not buy that... <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />

John Sabato · 08-22-2002, 11:07 AM

Why not Pete? It sounds logical to me! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Jerry G. · 08-22-2002, 10:44 PM

How does one go about getting a C&R license. And what exactly does it do besides allow you to take delivery of firearms directly?

wterrell · 08-22-2002, 11:00 PM

Here are a couple of links to groups that can help you obtain information toward a license:

LINK:

http://www.shelfspace.com/~c-r-ffl/

ANOTHER:

http://www.cruffler.com/

Herb · 08-22-2002, 11:00 PM

Jerry go to this link http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b17
for info on how to get one. It's easy and usually fast. The advantage of one is of course buying direct of any listed Curio or Relic from any where in the US, You can also fill out a form 6 and do an occasional import. Allows you buy and own machine guns of certain types, if that is your thing. Also requires you to keep records so the feds can track all purchases and sales. You cannot DEAL in firearms, if I recall without looking it up sales are limited to 6 guns a year, don't quote me here though, it's been awhile since I have read the regs. It's really good to have, especially when at a gun show and something shows up that you want to take home with you. The ATF Form 7CR is available for download at http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/index.htm
on the left click on 'forms'. You will need Adobe Acrobat to get it and legal size paper to print it.

wterrell · 08-22-2002, 11:01 PM

Jerry G. · 08-24-2002, 06:32 PM

Thank you my C&R application is in the mail!

Mark A · 09-08-2002, 01:28 AM

Edward Tinker · 09-08-2002, 01:37 AM

All WW2 and earlier Lugers are. Not the newer Mauser ones. I am hesitating because there are some commemoratives that are considered C&R. So usually all guns over 50 years are C&R, but first the BATF has to say they are. There are P1 and P38's from just after the war, and older than 50 years, but they are not considered C&R.

Mark A · 09-08-2002, 01:46 AM

Well I looked it up on the ATF website and thought I would just erase the evidence of my ignorance. Then I saw your reply. Do you sleep?
The question to the above answer is; Are all lugers c&r eligible? Thanks

Doubs · 09-08-2002, 11:44 AM

[quote]Originally posted by Edward Tinker:
<strong>All WW2 and earlier Lugers are. Not the newer Mauser ones. I am hesitating because there are some commemoratives that are considered C&R. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Ed, on page 24 of the March, 2001 printing of the BATF's "Firearms Curios or Relics List" you'll find that the following post-war Mauser Lugers are C&R:

Model 1902 Cartridge counter, 9mm, mfd. 1982

70 Jahre, Parabellum-Pistole, Kelsoreich Russiand, Commemorative, 9mm.

76 Jahr, Parabellum-Pistole, 1900-1975, Commemorative, cal. 7.65mm

75 Jahr, Parabellum-Pistole, Konigreich Bulgarian, Commemorative, caliber 7.65mm

Mauser Parabellum, semiautomatic pistol, 7.65mm or 9mm Luger, 4 and 6" barrel, Swiss pattern with grip safety and the American Eagle stamped on the receiver; made from 1970 to 1978.

The post-war Lugers that have been excluded include the 06/73 model that has the swell at the bottom of the leading grip strap (this includes a Swiss commemorative model 06/73), the "Gamba Model" which was made for Armi Renato Gamba SpA of Gardona Val Trompia, the 06/73 Navy Model, the 1981 06/73 carbine (without the cartridge counter), the 1983 75th Year Army Model, the Artillery Model and an American Eagle Model made for sale in Germany & Switzerland which appears to have been made on the 06/73 version of the Mauser Luger. There are also special order presentation guns not included. (The above information came from "The Luger Story" by John Walter.)

Ed is correct in saying that care must be taken if trying to buy a post-war Mauser Luger if you're trying to use your C&R license.

It's only my opinion but every one of the excluded pistols would likely be approved for inclusion on the BATF list if someone would submit them for consideration. Few of them have been purchased for the purpose of shooting and as such are already a collector's item.

I wonder what Mauser could produce them for price-wise now? A Millenium Luger would be nice!

Pete Ebbink · 09-08-2002, 11:45 AM

Hey Ed,

You are right about the 1970's Mauser-Interarms...

But the C&R list does also allow the M-I lugers that have the swiss-style, flat front grip strap...

Here is an excerpt from the ATF list :

" Luger, Mauser Parabellum, semiautomatic pistol, 7.65mm or 9mm Luger, 4 and 6" barrel, Swiss pattern with grip safety and the American Eagle stamped on the receiver; made from 1970 to 1978. "

Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

08-21-2002, 11:21 PM	#1
Jerry G. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	FFL for delivery of Luger From Shattuck, World of Lugers Today I struck a deal on a Luger with Ralph Shattuck in Arizona. As I live in Kansas City I need to have the gun shipped to a FFL holder. Anyone know of such a person in my area? I suppose any firearms dealer will work with me on this. Thoughts?

08-21-2002, 11:28 PM	#2
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Jerry, most dealers will accept your purchase. The normal charge is cost+10%. I suggest that you get a C&R license, it's easy and saves the charges by a dealer. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

08-21-2002, 11:30 PM	#3
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Jerry, Go to Gunbroker.com and click on the "For Buyers" link at the top. On this page will be a link to search for FFL holders in your ZIP code or city. These people have agreed to do business of receiving guns for people. There will be dealers in your area that will probably help you for $20-25. http://www.gunbroker.com/ __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

08-21-2002, 11:44 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Wes, that is exactly what I did and it worked for me before I got my C&R! [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

08-22-2002, 01:12 AM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Looks like a C&R license is inevitable for some of us collectors. Due to the increasing numbers of individuals purchasing firearms via the internet, dealers who receive them in my area (El Paso) are now charging $45 transfer fee! One dealer says he averages 3 internet weapons per day, many of which have to be sent back because of improper documentation. For him, the increased fee is an attempt to discourage this trade, since the book work and hassle isn't worth it. Considering the $25 shipping fee for overnight required by UPS, this makes buying even a "cheap" firearm a more expensive proposition. Guess I will have to break down and get my C&R license. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

08-22-2002, 12:11 AM	#5
Jerry G. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the info. I found sveral dealers in my area in Gunbroker.

08-22-2002, 01:19 AM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Ron, The folks here in CA-state charge from $ 75 to $ 100 per FFL transfer. Since I got my C&R, I think I have purchased nearly 10 guns and saved enough to buy my 1913/1920 Erfurt police luger... At least that is how I explained that purchase to my wife,...I said it was really a "free" luger... Of course, she did not buy that... <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />

08-22-2002, 11:07 AM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Why not Pete? It sounds logical to me! [img]biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-22-2002, 10:44 PM	#9
Jerry G. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	How does one go about getting a C&R license. And what exactly does it do besides allow you to take delivery of firearms directly?

08-22-2002, 11:00 PM	#10
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Here are a couple of links to groups that can help you obtain information toward a license: LINK: http://www.shelfspace.com/~c-r-ffl/ ANOTHER: http://www.cruffler.com/ __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

08-22-2002, 11:01 PM	#12
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	__________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

08-24-2002, 06:32 PM	#13
Jerry G. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank you my C&R application is in the mail!

09-08-2002, 01:28 AM	#14
Mark A User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Wheat Ridge, CO Posts: 105 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	__________________ Mark

09-08-2002, 01:37 AM	#15
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	All WW2 and earlier Lugers are. Not the newer Mauser ones. I am hesitating because there are some commemoratives that are considered C&R. So usually all guns over 50 years are C&R, but first the BATF has to say they are. There are P1 and P38's from just after the war, and older than 50 years, but they are not considered C&R. __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-08-2002, 01:46 AM	#16
Mark A User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Wheat Ridge, CO Posts: 105 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well I looked it up on the ATF website and thought I would just erase the evidence of my ignorance. Then I saw your reply. Do you sleep? The question to the above answer is; Are all lugers c&r eligible? Thanks __________________ Mark

09-08-2002, 11:44 AM	#17
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 819 Thanked 1,769 Times in 586 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by Edward Tinker: <strong>All WW2 and earlier Lugers are. Not the newer Mauser ones. I am hesitating because there are some commemoratives that are considered C&R. </strong><hr></blockquote> Ed, on page 24 of the March, 2001 printing of the BATF's "Firearms Curios or Relics List" you'll find that the following post-war Mauser Lugers are C&R: Model 1902 Cartridge counter, 9mm, mfd. 1982 70 Jahre, Parabellum-Pistole, Kelsoreich Russiand, Commemorative, 9mm. 76 Jahr, Parabellum-Pistole, 1900-1975, Commemorative, cal. 7.65mm 75 Jahr, Parabellum-Pistole, Konigreich Bulgarian, Commemorative, caliber 7.65mm Mauser Parabellum, semiautomatic pistol, 7.65mm or 9mm Luger, 4 and 6" barrel, Swiss pattern with grip safety and the American Eagle stamped on the receiver; made from 1970 to 1978. The post-war Lugers that have been excluded include the 06/73 model that has the swell at the bottom of the leading grip strap (this includes a Swiss commemorative model 06/73), the "Gamba Model" which was made for Armi Renato Gamba SpA of Gardona Val Trompia, the 06/73 Navy Model, the 1981 06/73 carbine (without the cartridge counter), the 1983 75th Year Army Model, the Artillery Model and an American Eagle Model made for sale in Germany & Switzerland which appears to have been made on the 06/73 version of the Mauser Luger. There are also special order presentation guns not included. (The above information came from "The Luger Story" by John Walter.) Ed is correct in saying that care must be taken if trying to buy a post-war Mauser Luger if you're trying to use your C&R license. It's only my opinion but every one of the excluded pistols would likely be approved for inclusion on the BATF list if someone would submit them for consideration. Few of them have been purchased for the purpose of shooting and as such are already a collector's item. I wonder what Mauser could produce them for price-wise now? A Millenium Luger would be nice!

09-08-2002, 11:45 AM	#18
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hey Ed, You are right about the 1970's Mauser-Interarms... But the C&R list does also allow the M-I lugers that have the swiss-style, flat front grip strap... Here is an excerpt from the ATF list : " Luger, Mauser Parabellum, semiautomatic pistol, 7.65mm or 9mm Luger, 4 and 6" barrel, Swiss pattern with grip safety and the American Eagle stamped on the receiver; made from 1970 to 1978. " Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />