First Two Lugers

LarryT · 03-09-2003, 03:45 PM

As a new member, I am excited to tell you my first two Lugers are home. I bought them from Forum members so you have seen them in the Forum want ads but I want to practice what I have learned from all of the books you have suggested to me, so bear with me please.

The 1916 Erfurt is all matching SN7761 right down to the firing pin et al. Grips are matching. Mag is unmatched but is correct Imperial era with a wood base stamped SN4724d + with a single pin at the rear. Rt side of receiver has three proof marks (16) including the Crown P indicating the retro-fitting of a hold-open latch (Henrotin) and one unusual mark that is a "double-decked" Crown above a Gothic G. On the left-top quadrant of the bbl is the Erfurt Crown RC (19) acceptance mark of the Revisions Committee apparently approving the revisions of the latch. Right top quadrant of the bbl has the military Erfurt Eagle (17)proof marking. Bbl caliber is marked 8,83 under bbl and the rest of the Luger is complete with many acceptance markings including the "I" well marking (Jones 12.)Front frame is SN7761 with either a mis-stamped "a" or "g" block suffix (accord to Herontin could be either). Mag well edge has Erfurt, what this novice will call, a "lazy E" marking (Jones 12.)

The 1940 Mauser Code 42 is all matching SN9013g except grips are SN 62 and are checked walnut but painted black (?). They are a slight bit too narrow and make me wonder if they fit a more narrow grip frame like a grip-safety model? The mag is the correct Nazi era but unmatched with
SN 7934h + with E/83 proof. It is blued, has a round spring, aluminum base, angled cut bottom with single pin at rear. I think the mag is from a 1938 S/42 Luger because the zig-zag spring started in 1939 (Jones and Herotin). Am I close?
Rt side of receiver has E/655 acceptance marks (Jones 31.) Well marking is Mauser "Circle K" (Jones 23.) Rt side of bbl is E/swastika proof; left side of bbl is E/655 accetance mark. Under bbl is 9013 with 8,81 caliber. Hole at top of Mauser stock lug rail.

Well, thanks for letting me take a run at these. I've been reading my butt off while awaiting the Lugers and what I really want to say is, "I LOVE THEM."
Larry

Pete Ebbink · 03-09-2003, 07:11 PM

Hello Larry,

Congratulations on joining the luger owner's club. We all suspect you may not stop with just these two pistols...

Are any of these two going to be a "shooter" for you? Collecting, holding, cleaning, admiring, etc. lugers are one thing; but shooting a luger is something else...my favorite is a 6" bbl'd, .30 cal 1920 Commercial...

Good luger hunting !

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

LarryT · 03-09-2003, 10:45 PM

Hi Pete,

Thanks for the welcome. I don't think I will shoot either of these Lugers but I'm still looking for a shooter that I can also send to Ted Green one day and have him turn it into a prince.
Ralph Shattuck has some nice ones and I'm writing to him. I'm always open for suggestions. Certainly a 6" bbl would be nice for accuracy. Its about 15 below here right now and our indoor range was shut down for lead buildup problems in the exhaust (or lack thereof)so I couldn't shoot it right now anyway.
Larry

Pete Ebbink · 03-10-2003, 09:58 AM

Larry,

Tom Heller usually has very nice shooters for sale. He is listed in the Links & Resources section, on the left side of the LugerForum screen.

As a matter of fact, all three of my shooters came from Tom...all were in excellent mechanical condition and are usually test-fired by Tom before the sale...and they even had a strong 90% or so original finish left...they were shooters based on the fact of a re-barrel, but all other parts matched, except for the magazines and barrels...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

LarryT · 03-11-2003, 03:00 PM

Pete,
Thanks for the tip about Tom. I have his email as I had written to him about buying a vented firing pin for my Erfurt but so many have frowned on firing it, I decided to hunt for a shooter. But, thanks for the tip. I'll contact him to see what he has.
Larry

Edward Tinker · 03-11-2003, 03:26 PM

Larry, I have been thinking about your two Lugers and feel bad for them. Since it is so cold in North Dakota, shouldn't they spend the winters in a milder climate, like Washington? I will send you my C&R and send you pictures every couple of months...

Seriously, sounds like some nice ones!

Ed

LarryT · 03-11-2003, 05:00 PM

Ed, Social Services also paid a visit but since it has warmed up to 18 today, they said I could keep them at my home. Good thing because I was ready for a stand-off if they even got close to the Lugers. I called the BATF today to check on my C&R and received no encouragement other than a reminder to be patient. I thought I had already done that.
Larry

Edward Tinker · 03-11-2003, 05:38 PM

I hear that, waiting is forever... Once you get your C&R, whatever you do, don't go to (as you'll spend tooo much money!):

http://www.auctionarms.com/Pages/CURPage1.htm

or

http://www.gunboards.com/trader/

or

http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Browse.asp?Cat=1014

Bad places, can cause grief with the wallet

LarryT · 03-11-2003, 07:03 PM

Thanks for the advice, Ed. I bought one pistol at gunbroker and vowed never to do it again. I did get the pistol and it was new but it had been around for awhile, handled a lot, and one clip was missing. He did replace the missing clip but I had to spend a lot of time on it.
Larry

Edward Tinker · 03-11-2003, 07:56 PM

Sorry Larry, a bit tongue in cheek, didn't mean they were bad places, but places you might spend money on too quickly. Not the same as 10 years ago, you see so many different guns available that years ago, you had to really search for!

I have bought off of gunboards, but not the others, although I have bid on both sites.

It is buyer beware isn't it tho! <img border="0" alt="[oops]" title="" src="graemlins/oops.gif" />

LarryT · 03-11-2003, 08:09 PM

Ed, I need to relax and not take this so seriously. My mistake. Thanks for the clarification. Also, do you have any thoughts on the magazine for the 1940 Code 42? I still think it is a 1938 S/42 mag even though the production numbers don't match up with the magazine SN 9013g.
Larry

Edward Tinker · 03-11-2003, 08:17 PM

I am no expert on those magazines, although I have a 1940 / 42. The correct magazine for mine is a code 122, (the one that came with the gun is mismatched and is a 655, they were made just a little bit later).

Ed

RockinWR · 03-12-2003, 02:26 AM

Larry T,
<blockquote>quote:<hr />The mag is the correct Nazi era but unmatched with SN 7934h + with E/83 proof.<hr /></blockquote>* You are correct on this being a 1938 vintage mag. The sE/83 Acceptance was used beginning in 1938. This mark essentially runs out shortly after 1939 started in the 1939,s/42 variation.
* Proper mag for your 1940/42, S/N 9013g is as Ed stated....Type III Mauser Military: Mfg. Code 122(Haenel), extruded tube, blued, with alum. concave center pinned base bearing the S/N including the suffix letter and the sE/655 WaA Inspector's acceptance. A "+" may appear if it is the 2nd mag (spare).
Respectfully,
WR

RockinWR · 03-12-2003, 02:42 AM

Larry T.
* BTW; your homework is evident by the fine description you provided to start this post going.
* While it may be self evident to you, when you record/report these examples, include the caliber (9mm), model(P.08), and the barrel length(100mm) even tho redundant when P.08 model is included.
* Again, fine report & "Thanks" for sharing these examples.
WR

LarryT · 03-12-2003, 10:52 AM

Thanks Ed and WR for the very helpful comments on the 1940 mag as well as critiquing my "report." I lurked and lurked trying to figure out how to report what I had purchased so I appreciate your helpful commments and encouraging words.
Larry

03-09-2003, 03:45 PM	#1
LarryT User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 50 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	First Two Lugers As a new member, I am excited to tell you my first two Lugers are home. I bought them from Forum members so you have seen them in the Forum want ads but I want to practice what I have learned from all of the books you have suggested to me, so bear with me please. The 1916 Erfurt is all matching SN7761 right down to the firing pin et al. Grips are matching. Mag is unmatched but is correct Imperial era with a wood base stamped SN4724d + with a single pin at the rear. Rt side of receiver has three proof marks (16) including the Crown P indicating the retro-fitting of a hold-open latch (Henrotin) and one unusual mark that is a "double-decked" Crown above a Gothic G. On the left-top quadrant of the bbl is the Erfurt Crown RC (19) acceptance mark of the Revisions Committee apparently approving the revisions of the latch. Right top quadrant of the bbl has the military Erfurt Eagle (17)proof marking. Bbl caliber is marked 8,83 under bbl and the rest of the Luger is complete with many acceptance markings including the "I" well marking (Jones 12.)Front frame is SN7761 with either a mis-stamped "a" or "g" block suffix (accord to Herontin could be either). Mag well edge has Erfurt, what this novice will call, a "lazy E" marking (Jones 12.) The 1940 Mauser Code 42 is all matching SN9013g except grips are SN 62 and are checked walnut but painted black (?). They are a slight bit too narrow and make me wonder if they fit a more narrow grip frame like a grip-safety model? The mag is the correct Nazi era but unmatched with SN 7934h + with E/83 proof. It is blued, has a round spring, aluminum base, angled cut bottom with single pin at rear. I think the mag is from a 1938 S/42 Luger because the zig-zag spring started in 1939 (Jones and Herotin). Am I close? Rt side of receiver has E/655 acceptance marks (Jones 31.) Well marking is Mauser "Circle K" (Jones 23.) Rt side of bbl is E/swastika proof; left side of bbl is E/655 accetance mark. Under bbl is 9013 with 8,81 caliber. Hole at top of Mauser stock lug rail. Well, thanks for letting me take a run at these. I've been reading my butt off while awaiting the Lugers and what I really want to say is, "I LOVE THEM." Larry

03-11-2003, 03:26 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Larry, I have been thinking about your two Lugers and feel bad for them. Since it is so cold in North Dakota, shouldn't they spend the winters in a milder climate, like Washington? I will send you my C&R and send you pictures every couple of months... Seriously, sounds like some nice ones! Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-11-2003, 05:38 PM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	I hear that, waiting is forever... Once you get your C&R, whatever you do, don't go to (as you'll spend tooo much money!): http://www.auctionarms.com/Pages/CURPage1.htm or http://www.gunboards.com/trader/ or http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/Browse.asp?Cat=1014 Bad places, can cause grief with the wallet __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-11-2003, 07:56 PM	#10
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Sorry Larry, a bit tongue in cheek, didn't mean they were bad places, but places you might spend money on too quickly. Not the same as 10 years ago, you see so many different guns available that years ago, you had to really search for! I have bought off of gunboards, but not the others, although I have bid on both sites. It is buyer beware isn't it tho! <img border="0" alt="[oops]" title="" src="graemlins/oops.gif" /> __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-11-2003, 08:17 PM	#12
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	I am no expert on those magazines, although I have a 1940 / 42. The correct magazine for mine is a code 122, (the one that came with the gun is mismatched and is a 655, they were made just a little bit later). Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-09-2003, 07:11 PM	#2
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Larry, Congratulations on joining the luger owner's club. We all suspect you may not stop with just these two pistols... Are any of these two going to be a "shooter" for you? Collecting, holding, cleaning, admiring, etc. lugers are one thing; but shooting a luger is something else...my favorite is a 6" bbl'd, .30 cal 1920 Commercial... Good luger hunting ! Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

03-09-2003, 10:45 PM	#3
LarryT User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 50 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi Pete, Thanks for the welcome. I don't think I will shoot either of these Lugers but I'm still looking for a shooter that I can also send to Ted Green one day and have him turn it into a prince. Ralph Shattuck has some nice ones and I'm writing to him. I'm always open for suggestions. Certainly a 6" bbl would be nice for accuracy. Its about 15 below here right now and our indoor range was shut down for lead buildup problems in the exhaust (or lack thereof)so I couldn't shoot it right now anyway. Larry

03-10-2003, 09:58 AM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Larry, Tom Heller usually has very nice shooters for sale. He is listed in the Links & Resources section, on the left side of the LugerForum screen. As a matter of fact, all three of my shooters came from Tom...all were in excellent mechanical condition and are usually test-fired by Tom before the sale...and they even had a strong 90% or so original finish left...they were shooters based on the fact of a re-barrel, but all other parts matched, except for the magazines and barrels... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

03-11-2003, 03:00 PM	#5
LarryT User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 50 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Pete, Thanks for the tip about Tom. I have his email as I had written to him about buying a vented firing pin for my Erfurt but so many have frowned on firing it, I decided to hunt for a shooter. But, thanks for the tip. I'll contact him to see what he has. Larry

03-11-2003, 05:00 PM	#7
LarryT User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 50 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed, Social Services also paid a visit but since it has warmed up to 18 today, they said I could keep them at my home. Good thing because I was ready for a stand-off if they even got close to the Lugers. I called the BATF today to check on my C&R and received no encouragement other than a reminder to be patient. I thought I had already done that. Larry

03-11-2003, 07:03 PM	#9
LarryT User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 50 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the advice, Ed. I bought one pistol at gunbroker and vowed never to do it again. I did get the pistol and it was new but it had been around for awhile, handled a lot, and one clip was missing. He did replace the missing clip but I had to spend a lot of time on it. Larry

03-11-2003, 08:09 PM	#11
LarryT User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 50 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed, I need to relax and not take this so seriously. My mistake. Thanks for the clarification. Also, do you have any thoughts on the magazine for the 1940 Code 42? I still think it is a 1938 S/42 mag even though the production numbers don't match up with the magazine SN 9013g. Larry

03-12-2003, 02:26 AM	#13
RockinWR User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: D/FW, Tx Posts: 279 Thanks: 109 Thanked 31 Times in 16 Posts	Larry T, </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">The mag is the correct Nazi era but unmatched with SN 7934h + with E/83 proof.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">* You are correct on this being a 1938 vintage mag. The sE/83 Acceptance was used beginning in 1938. This mark essentially runs out shortly after 1939 started in the 1939,s/42 variation. * Proper mag for your 1940/42, S/N 9013g is as Ed stated....Type III Mauser Military: Mfg. Code 122(Haenel), extruded tube, blued, with alum. concave center pinned base bearing the S/N including the suffix letter and the sE/655 WaA Inspector's acceptance. A "+" may appear if it is the 2nd mag (spare). Respectfully, WR

03-12-2003, 02:42 AM	#14
RockinWR User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: D/FW, Tx Posts: 279 Thanks: 109 Thanked 31 Times in 16 Posts	Larry T. * BTW; your homework is evident by the fine description you provided to start this post going. * While it may be self evident to you, when you record/report these examples, include the caliber (9mm), model(P.08), and the barrel length(100mm) even tho redundant when P.08 model is included. * Again, fine report & "Thanks" for sharing these examples. WR

03-12-2003, 10:52 AM	#15
LarryT User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 50 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Ed and WR for the very helpful comments on the 1940 mag as well as critiquing my "report." I lurked and lurked trying to figure out how to report what I had purchased so I appreciate your helpful commments and encouraging words. Larry