I need help identifying my Luger

John Eric · 01-25-2004, 04:09 PM

Hello Everyone,
I'm new to the forum and I need some help identifying my Luger. I inherited my Luger from my grandfather. From what I've been told he brought it back from the WWII European Theatre.
I purchased a book "The Luger Handbook" by Aarron Davis to assist in identifying the Luger, but the markings on the pistol and what was in the book didn't agree completely and I was hoping someone here might be able to help.
I provided link for pictures of the pistol at the end of this post.

Description of the pistol:
Manufacturer: DWM
Toggle Style: New
Barrel: 4"
Caliber: 9mm
Serial Number: 8703 (no suffix)
Marked at the following locations-
1. On the left side of the pistol's chamber in front of the side plate.
2. On the toggle behind the toggle "grips"
3. On the front of the frame below the barrel, in front of the trigger guard.
4. On the bottom the magazine.
(Various places on the pistol are marked with "03")
Trigger Guard: Wide (I believe)
Trigger: Wide (I believe)
Thumb Safety: Safe Down marked GESICHERT
Grips: Black plastic
Magazine: Aluminum
Markings:
1. Crown with N below it. On the underside of the barrel
2. DWM (scroll). In front of the toggle grips. There is a tiny "eagle" to the front of the DWM.
3. "Eagle" with number 53 or 63 below it on the right side of the pistol's chamber.
4. Another "Eagle" with number 63 below it on the right side of the pistol's chamber next to the other "Eagle"
5. A marking similar to a "box with lines fanning out below it" on the right side of the pistol's chamber next to the other "Eagles"
6. A "G" on the top of the chamber.
7. An "S with a starburst" on the bottom of the magazine.

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

Smaller pictures, ebt:

Luger Pictures **LARGER PICTURES**

Herb · 01-25-2004, 04:41 PM

John, first of all I can't get your pictures to load, the links take me to MSN and want me to log in. From your descriptions going backwards, your magazine is a 1929-1932 late police proof, the S meaning Sonderpolizei. Your description of the reciever eagles and the "G" on the chamber places that part as a Mauser "G" date Luger of 1935. The box with lines fannning out is probably another eagle. The crown N on the barrel indicates that it is an East German proofmark for the proofhouse at Suhl indicating it was nitro proofed in accordance with the 1950 proof law. Perhaps someone can get into the pictures and give you some more or better advice. My impression is that it is an East German Vopo Luger, I wish I could see the pics though.

Doubs · 01-25-2004, 05:53 PM

I'm with Herb. While likely an East German rework, it's without doubt a parts gun made up from various guns. "G" date pistols were Mauser-made and would not have a DWM toggle train.

Doubs · 01-25-2004, 06:03 PM

Great point, Tac. It's true history has likely been lost in time.

John Eric · 01-25-2004, 06:17 PM

Thanks for your help everyone.
I've changed the URL for the pics in the initial post above. So everyone should be able to access them now.

John Eric · 01-25-2004, 06:26 PM

So it's a parts gun and probably a rework from after the war, that's everyone's conclusion? The "story" is second hand from my uncle and if it's not a bring back then there is no "sentimental" value. If I decide to sell what would be a realistic asking price?

Edward Tinker · 01-25-2004, 06:29 PM

John (I changed your pictures to show, hope you don't mind), shooter prices of Lugers such as this go for $400-$500, depending on the buyer and seller.

It seems like a nice gun and worth that to many.

John, I have seen and heard this happening, Grandfather DID have luger in the wear, or brought one back, and it got sold or traded and eventually the story is that THIS is the luger brought back.

Are there import marks on it?

Ed

John Eric · 01-25-2004, 06:42 PM

Ed, I can't say for certain that there are or aren't import marks on it. What should I look for? I tried to list all of the markings I saw in my earlier post.

John Sabato · 01-25-2004, 10:09 PM

John, The "import mark" if it has one is a stamp required to be put on guns brought into this country for resale to identify the importer. It can be very small or very obvious and ugly.

It is often placed in regions that doesn't show much when the pistol is assembled. Like the bottom of the barrel or under the grips.

You may have to use a magnifying glass and a good light source, and then again it might not have any at all.

The gun looks like a great shooter and the price range mentioned seems fair. If you want to sell it, you can list it and the price you want in the FOR SALE forum at no charge... and you will likely sell it, or you can try the auction sites like auctionarms.com, gunbroker.com or gunsamerica.com to see what you can get for it, but there you will pay a fee.

then again, as a refugee of the East German part of world history, it has a story all it's own and would be a nice gun to pass on to YOUR heirs...

20 years from now, even Parts gun Lugers will be worth a premium. There is a finite supply and unlimited demand.

best of luck to you, whatever you decide.

Best of luck to you...

stevezz1 · 01-26-2004, 05:20 PM

Hello tac,
I could not agree more.
How nice it would be just to own one live Luger that i could shoot.................

I suppose the powers that be know best.
Don't they?
(No, they bloody well do not)

Oh well, Dream on.........

Regards,

Steve.

Strider · 01-26-2004, 06:14 PM

John, Here is an example of an import mark that is on my Mauser.
Sid.

John Eric · 01-26-2004, 06:35 PM

TAC: I don't know when the last time a round was fired from it and I'm not sure what would happen if a round was fired from it. I suppose I could have it examined by a gunsmith to see if it's in good enough condition to fire and go from there.

Strider: I haven't seen anything similar to that. There isn't any English or German lettering on the pistol, except for GESICHERT.

I've looked around this site and some others are there are some beautful Lugers out there. I personally don't think mine is one of them. I am considering unloading this one and obtaining a nicer one.

01-25-2004, 04:09 PM	#1
John Eric User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I need help identifying my Luger Hello Everyone, I'm new to the forum and I need some help identifying my Luger. I inherited my Luger from my grandfather. From what I've been told he brought it back from the WWII European Theatre. I purchased a book "The Luger Handbook" by Aarron Davis to assist in identifying the Luger, but the markings on the pistol and what was in the book didn't agree completely and I was hoping someone here might be able to help. I provided link for pictures of the pistol at the end of this post. Description of the pistol: Manufacturer: DWM Toggle Style: New Barrel: 4" Caliber: 9mm Serial Number: 8703 (no suffix) Marked at the following locations- 1. On the left side of the pistol's chamber in front of the side plate. 2. On the toggle behind the toggle "grips" 3. On the front of the frame below the barrel, in front of the trigger guard. 4. On the bottom the magazine. (Various places on the pistol are marked with "03") Trigger Guard: Wide (I believe) Trigger: Wide (I believe) Thumb Safety: Safe Down marked GESICHERT Grips: Black plastic Magazine: Aluminum Markings: 1. Crown with N below it. On the underside of the barrel 2. DWM (scroll). In front of the toggle grips. There is a tiny "eagle" to the front of the DWM. 3. "Eagle" with number 53 or 63 below it on the right side of the pistol's chamber. 4. Another "Eagle" with number 63 below it on the right side of the pistol's chamber next to the other "Eagle" 5. A marking similar to a "box with lines fanning out below it" on the right side of the pistol's chamber next to the other "Eagles" 6. A "G" on the top of the chamber. 7. An "S with a starburst" on the bottom of the magazine. Thanks in advance for your assistance. Smaller pictures, ebt: Luger Pictures LARGER PICTURES

01-25-2004, 04:41 PM	#2
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	John, first of all I can't get your pictures to load, the links take me to MSN and want me to log in. From your descriptions going backwards, your magazine is a 1929-1932 late police proof, the S meaning Sonderpolizei. Your description of the reciever eagles and the "G" on the chamber places that part as a Mauser "G" date Luger of 1935. The box with lines fannning out is probably another eagle. The crown N on the barrel indicates that it is an East German proofmark for the proofhouse at Suhl indicating it was nitro proofed in accordance with the 1950 proof law. Perhaps someone can get into the pictures and give you some more or better advice. My impression is that it is an East German Vopo Luger, I wish I could see the pics though. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

01-25-2004, 06:29 PM	#7
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,933 Thanks: 2,032 Thanked 4,530 Times in 2,092 Posts	John (I changed your pictures to show, hope you don't mind), shooter prices of Lugers such as this go for $400-$500, depending on the buyer and seller. It seems like a nice gun and worth that to many. John, I have seen and heard this happening, Grandfather DID have luger in the wear, or brought one back, and it got sold or traded and eventually the story is that THIS is the luger brought back. Are there import marks on it? Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

01-25-2004, 10:09 PM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,154 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,306 Times in 1,097 Posts	John, The "import mark" if it has one is a stamp required to be put on guns brought into this country for resale to identify the importer. It can be very small or very obvious and ugly. It is often placed in regions that doesn't show much when the pistol is assembled. Like the bottom of the barrel or under the grips. You may have to use a magnifying glass and a good light source, and then again it might not have any at all. The gun looks like a great shooter and the price range mentioned seems fair. If you want to sell it, you can list it and the price you want in the FOR SALE forum at no charge... and you will likely sell it, or you can try the auction sites like auctionarms.com, gunbroker.com or gunsamerica.com to see what you can get for it, but there you will pay a fee. then again, as a refugee of the East German part of world history, it has a story all it's own and would be a nice gun to pass on to YOUR heirs... 20 years from now, even Parts gun Lugers will be worth a premium. There is a finite supply and unlimited demand. best of luck to you, whatever you decide. Best of luck to you... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

01-26-2004, 05:20 PM	#10
stevezz1 User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: England / South East Posts: 38 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello tac, I could not agree more. How nice it would be just to own one live Luger that i could shoot................. I suppose the powers that be know best. Don't they? (No, they bloody well do not) Oh well, Dream on......... Regards, Steve. __________________ As she abused the sausage pattie and said 'why don't you treat me mean'.

01-25-2004, 05:53 PM	#3
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,696 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,679 Times in 552 Posts	I'm with Herb. While likely an East German rework, it's without doubt a parts gun made up from various guns. "G" date pistols were Mauser-made and would not have a DWM toggle train.

01-25-2004, 06:03 PM	#4
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,696 Thanks: 792 Thanked 1,679 Times in 552 Posts	Great point, Tac. It's true history has likely been lost in time.

01-25-2004, 06:17 PM	#5
John Eric User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for your help everyone. I've changed the URL for the pics in the initial post above. So everyone should be able to access them now.

01-25-2004, 06:26 PM	#6
John Eric User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	So it's a parts gun and probably a rework from after the war, that's everyone's conclusion? The "story" is second hand from my uncle and if it's not a bring back then there is no "sentimental" value. If I decide to sell what would be a realistic asking price?

01-25-2004, 06:42 PM	#8
John Eric User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed, I can't say for certain that there are or aren't import marks on it. What should I look for? I tried to list all of the markings I saw in my earlier post.

01-26-2004, 06:14 PM	#11
Strider User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 256 Thanks: 26 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John, Here is an example of an import mark that is on my Mauser. Sid. __________________ Sid. Patience is a bitter plant, but it has sweet fruit. ~German Proverb If it is made before 1930 ..........It is a prototype.

01-26-2004, 06:35 PM	#12
John Eric User Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Michigan, USA Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	TAC: I don't know when the last time a round was fired from it and I'm not sure what would happen if a round was fired from it. I suppose I could have it examined by a gunsmith to see if it's in good enough condition to fire and go from there. Strider: I haven't seen anything similar to that. There isn't any English or German lettering on the pistol, except for GESICHERT. I've looked around this site and some others are there are some beautful Lugers out there. I personally don't think mine is one of them. I am considering unloading this one and obtaining a nicer one.