1915 Artillery 8" Barrel

[eaglehigh]

I am new at this, having been referred from Gunboards.com. and have no pictures. Am trying to find out exactly what I have. Please excuse my terminology. The forum at Gunboards believes I have an Artillery Luger. The serial No. is 1493, all matching parts including the magazine, I guess, which is stamped 9M3. It has an 8" barrel with rear elevating sight. DWM is stamped on the top of the rear toggle with 1915 just behind the sight. I can find no match to this on the manufacturers logos. Also, I can find no match to the guns proof marks. They are similar to illustration No.15 except the left most mark is the same as the other two - like a script S. Stamped on the left side of the barrel between the full serial No. and the trigger safety is "Germany". The Gunboard fellows say that this indicates an import into the US and sold through a dealer. However, the history is that it was removed from a dead German in WWI and given to my father. Can you give me some more direction please. Thanks - Harry

[Navy]

Hello Harry,

Happy New year and welcome to the forum.

Based on your description (pix would help a lot), it seems you have one of the many W.W, I Lugers that were hawked in the U.S.of A. post 1918. The stamp "Germany" almost completely negates the family history.
Don't feel bad about the family history thing tho. We all wish our family were giants among the pygmies of this world. Some of them were.
Unfortunately, your gun puts the lie to the story, but that in no way lessens the acomplishments of your ancestor. Hold that piece proudly; someone thought a lot of it.

Tom A.

[Ron Wood]

To add a bit to the appropriate information that Tom has provided, you undoubtedly have what you have already correctly identified as a 1915 DWM Artillery. I can understand your confusion concerning not being able to find an exact match in the manufacturerâ??s logos of the Technical Information section of the forum. For some inexplicable reason, there is no example of a dated DWM illustrated in that section. Apparently the examples shown were only those of relatively rare variants of dates and chamber markings, and a dated DWM is quite the norm. Likewise, the lack of a match to the proof marks may be attributed to the less than comprehensive sample provided in the Technical Information. The triple Crown/S proof is entirely correct for a 1915 DWM, and if you can locate a copy of â??World of Luger Proof Marksâ?� by Costanzo, you can find precisely that proof mark for a 1915 DWM on page 289.

The magazine marking of 9M3 is a bit of a mystery to me; I have not encountered such a mark. Perhaps you could provide a photo?

Addressing the information provided by the Gunboard fellows concerning the â??Germanyâ?� stamp, they are in essence correct. Your Luger was possibly reworked/refurbished in the 1920â??s and marked for export. It is entirely possible that no rework was performed at all if the weapon was in good condition, but it definitely was marked â??Germanyâ?� in that time frame to be sold on the commercial market. I am afraid that the attribution of the Luger being removed from a dead German in WWI is not borne out by the evidence of the markings.

I hope this enhances the information you have already received, and provides the direction you require.

Best regards,
Ron

[eaglehigh]

Thanks to all of you. This is fast, helpful and unbelievably amazing. It really helps when one finds the correct source of info. Without all of you I could have spent who knows how long in my research. Believe I will frame this luger and hang in on the wall. Have had it tucked away for years.

By the way, how is the best way to clean this, find a dealer?

Harry

[eaglehigh]

One more question. What is a Parabellum?

Harry

[Edward Tinker]

Americans call the luger a Luger, Europe calls it a Parabellum, its actual name.

I think the history is probably half way true, I imagine that "a" luger was picked up during the war and this was a "replacement",

Ed

[Ron Wood]

Harry,

The telegram address of DWM was "Parabellum - Berlin". It means "for war", and comes from the Latin phrase "Si vis pacem, para bellum" or "If you wish peace, [prepare] for war". The primary market for the Luger was initially the military and cartridges created for use in the Luger were designated 7.65mm Parabellum, and later 9mm Parabellum, or literally cartridges for war. The Parabellum association caught on in Europe, but the patents and marketing efforts of Georg Luger in the U.S. resulted in the use of his name as the designation for our favorite firearm.

[Ron Wood]

Greetings Ig,

In the Technical Information section of this forum under â??Markingsâ?�, there are line drawings of the tops of variations of Lugers attempting to illustrate â??Manufacturer Logosâ?�. I think that is where Harry was led astray in trying to match up his Artillery.

The line drawings show some very uncommon markings, to include a fake Chrysanthemum Vickers! The only Imperial era dated Lugers illustrated are Erfurt and Spandau (and believe it or not a 1918 Simson!). The DWM shown is a Swiss. There is no example of a dated DWM. As a tool for the neophyte to use for identification, these illustrations arenâ??t very useful. Perhaps a good project for a graphically inclined member would be to expand these drawings or replace them with photographs. Your offer of your masterâ??s 1918-dated DWM would certainly contribute to the latter effort.

[eaglehigh]

Ron:

In response to your question about the magazine marking of 9M3 - it appears to be this. However, to make out any part of the marking I must use a magniyfing glass and what I say is an M has the left verticle line missing or worn off. I made the assumption of an M. Also the 3 could be an 8.

[Ron Wood]

Most Excellent Ig,

I shall wind the spring on my computing device so that I might receive your email if addressed to rwood1@elp.rr.com

In your debt

Ron

[Heinz]

Ron, have you noticed that Ig is more courteous, more computer literate and better looking than TAC??

[Edward Tinker]

Heinz, how rude.

True, but rude,