New one, Dutch P08

Vlim · 10-09-2002, 02:15 PM

Hi,

Just recently joined the forum after buying my first P08. I've been looking around for a good shooter, so a restored or renovated P08 with unmatching numbers would be a good choice. I managed to find one in The Hague (the Netherlands) and to my surprise it turned out to be a Dutch one. The basic parts are the 1928 delivered frame (10.000 range serial nr) and the 1937-ish barrel assembly. It's 'Kolonien'stamped, has the crown/nitro mark and the brass tag soldered to the side. When I get all the paperwork done (lots here [img]smile.gif[/img] I'll be sure to get a photo of it on the forum.

One question however, for which I've heard lotsa different answers and comments:

What commercially available make/type of 9mm luger ammo is most suited for these old beasts?

John Sabato · 10-09-2002, 02:55 PM

Welcome to the Lugerforum!

Since I am not sure what brands of ammunition are available in the Netherlands... I am not exactly sure what recommendation we can give you on ammunition.

Certainly most military surplus ammunition (unless specifically marked for use in submachine guns) should work well. Avoid the submachinegun ammo as some of it can be pretty hotly loaded to work a much larger action.

For commercial ammunition, Winchester 115 grain ammo works well for many on this side of the Atlantic. The standard projectile for military 9mm ammunition is 124 grain.

Perhaps some of our European members can provide additional recommendations based on what they know the availability of ammunition to be.

Edmond , DCB shooting · 11-04-2002, 03:19 PM

Hi All, what should be available easily in NL is GECO ( very mild, perfect for a LÃ?Â¼ger) and Sellier & Bellot ( same comment )these won't wear out a P08 , S&B won't wear out your wallet, reloading needs a special licence in Holland as far as I learned from Dutch IPSC fellow shooters.

Vlim · 11-13-2002, 06:31 AM

Hi,

We tested the M11 with S&B ammo and I've ordered a batch. Gonna pick up up the M11 tonight. Lotsa paperwork before you can own/transport/shoot anything over here [img]smile.gif[/img]

Some preliminary research results sofar:
(thanks to Bas Martens and Guus de Vries, great book)
-It's one of the +/- 3800 BKIW deliveries to the Netherlands in august and september 1928. This is the only batch that has the distinct 'KOL' mark. The barrel is a different story. It is numbered, but doesn't seem to be a KNIL replacement (they used to have the year of replacement on them). The M11 comes complete with 2 original wood base magazines.

I'll try to get some photo's online asap.

John Sabato · 11-13-2002, 10:54 AM

G. van Vlimmeren,

I am very interested in seeing the photos of your Dutch Luger...

It is not a commonly seen variation. Please consider creating a photo album in the Member Gallery and do a thorough photo layout. There is no file size restriction in the gallery as there is in the upload for inclusion in a message post.

If you require assistance, please don't hesitate to ask.

Ron Wood · 11-13-2002, 01:24 PM

Gerben,

As you may already know, the Dutch wood base magazines are found in three versions. The early magazines were fabricated with a spring catch in the wood base so that it could be removed for cleaning the magazine interior. A good idea for tropical climates but in practice this spring failed frequently. So many of the early magazines will be of the second version, having a pin added to secure the wood base thereby rendering it non-removable without a punch. The last version has the standard pinned base without a spring catch.

The early spring catch magazines in good condition are quite scarce and a bit costly. So if your magazines are of this type, it might be a good idea to use replacement magazines for shooting (probably a bit more reliable too).

Lugerdoc · 11-14-2002, 08:20 AM

If anyone needs the "spring catch" for the early Dutch mags, I had a few of these made. Tom H.

Vlim · 11-14-2002, 05:25 PM

Hi,

Some more updates, as I got the M11 home last night:

The frame dates from a 1913 DWM delivery. It has traces of the old regiment stampings on the back, that have been filed away when the brass side plate was added. The barrel and receiver are part of the 1928 DWM/BKIW delivery. Extractor is marked 'geladen' on both sides. One of the magazines seems to be a replacement, the other one a 3rd version nickel plated wood bottom one, without the spring catch. One of the grips is the roughly checkered indonesian produced version, the other one is a standard German one [img]smile.gif[/img]

All in all, this gun is made up of several parts, but they all seem to be Dutch in origin.

Pictures (scans) will follow...

Vlim · 11-14-2002, 06:07 PM

I've taken some pictures, they're available at
http://home.concepts.nl/~vlimmere/p08/

The frame is numbered 2850.
Both the (different) grips are numbered GS 2850,
indicating that they're both part of this gun, although they're very different in design.

The barrel is numbered 11910 and has a crown N stamp above the number.

The side plate is unnumbered.
The receiver has a crown N and 10 on one side and the KOL logo on the other.
Trigger is numbered 350.

Pete Ebbink · 11-15-2002, 06:41 PM

Hello Gerben,

Thanks for taking the time to post your Dutch luger info. and the photos !

It seems that your gun has quite a bit of history with its several parts, probably, from different lugers over the years.

Before you shoot it (assuming you decide to do so...), you might want a gunsmith do an inspection, to make sure your luger is in good working order; so if you decide to shoot it, you can do so with some safety/comfort level...

Again, thanks !

Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

kidvett · 11-15-2002, 07:44 PM

Hello Gerben,

I have to tell you that you have a VERY NICE PISTOL! CONGRATS! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

Dutch LUGERs are a big time rarity here in Canada!

kidvett [img]cool.gif[/img]

Lugerdoc · 11-16-2002, 10:35 AM

GvV, The brass plackard and GS marked grips would indicate to me service in Indonesia. Usually the Indonesian "Gun School" replacement grips have much courser checkering on the outside than the original DWM grips and have a couple of slots on the inside of each, from the jig in which they were checkered. Tom H.

10-09-2002, 02:15 PM	#1
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	New one, Dutch P08 Hi, Just recently joined the forum after buying my first P08. I've been looking around for a good shooter, so a restored or renovated P08 with unmatching numbers would be a good choice. I managed to find one in The Hague (the Netherlands) and to my surprise it turned out to be a Dutch one. The basic parts are the 1928 delivered frame (10.000 range serial nr) and the 1937-ish barrel assembly. It's 'Kolonien'stamped, has the crown/nitro mark and the brass tag soldered to the side. When I get all the paperwork done (lots here [img]smile.gif[/img] I'll be sure to get a photo of it on the forum. One question however, for which I've heard lotsa different answers and comments: What commercially available make/type of 9mm luger ammo is most suited for these old beasts?

10-09-2002, 02:55 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Welcome to the Lugerforum! Since I am not sure what brands of ammunition are available in the Netherlands... I am not exactly sure what recommendation we can give you on ammunition. Certainly most military surplus ammunition (unless specifically marked for use in submachine guns) should work well. Avoid the submachinegun ammo as some of it can be pretty hotly loaded to work a much larger action. For commercial ammunition, Winchester 115 grain ammo works well for many on this side of the Atlantic. The standard projectile for military 9mm ammunition is 124 grain. Perhaps some of our European members can provide additional recommendations based on what they know the availability of ammunition to be. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-04-2002, 03:19 PM	#3
Edmond , DCB shooting User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: FRANCE Posts: 53 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi All, what should be available easily in NL is GECO ( very mild, perfect for a LÃ?Â¼ger) and Sellier & Bellot ( same comment )these won't wear out a P08 , S&B won't wear out your wallet, reloading needs a special licence in Holland as far as I learned from Dutch IPSC fellow shooters. __________________ Shoot'in by DCB

11-13-2002, 10:54 AM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	G. van Vlimmeren, I am very interested in seeing the photos of your Dutch Luger... It is not a commonly seen variation. Please consider creating a photo album in the Member Gallery and do a thorough photo layout. There is no file size restriction in the gallery as there is in the upload for inclusion in a message post. If you require assistance, please don't hesitate to ask. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-13-2002, 01:24 PM	#6
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Gerben, As you may already know, the Dutch wood base magazines are found in three versions. The early magazines were fabricated with a spring catch in the wood base so that it could be removed for cleaning the magazine interior. A good idea for tropical climates but in practice this spring failed frequently. So many of the early magazines will be of the second version, having a pin added to secure the wood base thereby rendering it non-removable without a punch. The last version has the standard pinned base without a spring catch. The early spring catch magazines in good condition are quite scarce and a bit costly. So if your magazines are of this type, it might be a good idea to use replacement magazines for shooting (probably a bit more reliable too). __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-13-2002, 06:31 AM	#4
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, We tested the M11 with S&B ammo and I've ordered a batch. Gonna pick up up the M11 tonight. Lotsa paperwork before you can own/transport/shoot anything over here [img]smile.gif[/img] Some preliminary research results sofar: (thanks to Bas Martens and Guus de Vries, great book) -It's one of the +/- 3800 BKIW deliveries to the Netherlands in august and september 1928. This is the only batch that has the distinct 'KOL' mark. The barrel is a different story. It is numbered, but doesn't seem to be a KNIL replacement (they used to have the year of replacement on them). The M11 comes complete with 2 original wood base magazines. I'll try to get some photo's online asap.

11-14-2002, 08:20 AM	#7
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	If anyone needs the "spring catch" for the early Dutch mags, I had a few of these made. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

11-14-2002, 05:25 PM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Hi, Some more updates, as I got the M11 home last night: The frame dates from a 1913 DWM delivery. It has traces of the old regiment stampings on the back, that have been filed away when the brass side plate was added. The barrel and receiver are part of the 1928 DWM/BKIW delivery. Extractor is marked 'geladen' on both sides. One of the magazines seems to be a replacement, the other one a 3rd version nickel plated wood bottom one, without the spring catch. One of the grips is the roughly checkered indonesian produced version, the other one is a standard German one [img]smile.gif[/img] All in all, this gun is made up of several parts, but they all seem to be Dutch in origin. Pictures (scans) will follow...

11-14-2002, 06:07 PM	#9
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	I've taken some pictures, they're available at http://home.concepts.nl/~vlimmere/p08/ The frame is numbered 2850. Both the (different) grips are numbered GS 2850, indicating that they're both part of this gun, although they're very different in design. The barrel is numbered 11910 and has a crown N stamp above the number. The side plate is unnumbered. The receiver has a crown N and 10 on one side and the KOL logo on the other. Trigger is numbered 350.

11-15-2002, 06:41 PM	#10
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Gerben, Thanks for taking the time to post your Dutch luger info. and the photos ! It seems that your gun has quite a bit of history with its several parts, probably, from different lugers over the years. Before you shoot it (assuming you decide to do so...), you might want a gunsmith do an inspection, to make sure your luger is in good working order; so if you decide to shoot it, you can do so with some safety/comfort level... Again, thanks ! Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

11-15-2002, 07:44 PM	#11
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Hello Gerben, I have to tell you that you have a VERY NICE PISTOL! CONGRATS! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> Dutch LUGERs are a big time rarity here in Canada! kidvett [img]cool.gif[/img]

11-16-2002, 10:35 AM	#12
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	GvV, The brass plackard and GS marked grips would indicate to me service in Indonesia. Usually the Indonesian "Gun School" replacement grips have much courser checkering on the outside than the original DWM grips and have a couple of slots on the inside of each, from the jig in which they were checkered. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net