Newbie with questions

Michael Kasun · 11-26-2002, 10:27 AM

I am a brand new member of this forum and look forward to learning more about Lugers. I have scanned some of the threads and have determined IÃ¢??ve come to the right place for that. I have enjoyed shooting for many years but have only recently become interested in collecting military firearms. Since my father fought in WWII I am particularly interested firearms employed in that conflict.

I recently had the pleasure of shooting a Luger for the first time. A friend of mine showed up with a well worn S/42 that shot amazingly well. I shot far better with his 60+ year old pistol than with my modern pistols.

I am looking to purchase a shooter that is matched and is generally nice condition. I want to be able to shoot it without fear that IÃ¢??ll hurt my investment or foul a piece of history.

I was greatly encouraged by the thread regarding MayberryÃ¢??s potential purchase. The photos seemed to show a very nicely preserved Luger and I was surprised that several forum members recommended purchasing the piece as a $500-600 shooter. I was impressed at the detailed analysis that led to that appraisal as well.

My big questions are:

Where can I purchase a Luger and feel confident that I will receive exactly what I am bargaining for? I get the impression that Ralph Shattuck is rather well thought of around here so he may be my man. If anyone has other suggestions IÃ¢??d like to hear about them. By the way, I saw an article that indicated that Ralph has 1,600 Lugers but on his web site there are only a relatively small number listed for sale. Is this merely because he only means to give web surfers a taste of his merchandise?

Are there models/configurations that are known to shoot better than others? I would suspect that as WWII went on the general quality may have suffered.

Is the Luger a durable/dependable weapon if properly maintained?

Is it as hard to assemble/disassemble as it looks?

Thanks in advance.

MK

Edward Tinker · 11-26-2002, 10:53 AM

Welcome to the forum!

The Luger was made from the early 1900's, up to 1944/45 time frame and then Mauser made Lugers in the 70's, and also Mitchell and someone I am forgetting about made more. So, my point is that Lugers have been made for many years, in MANY configurations and styles.

So, if you are looking for a "shooter", it will probably be mismatched, cosmetically damaged, possibly reblued or a newer one.

Decide what you want and then look for one. Many Lugers have been sold in our "For Sale" section.

[quote]I am looking to purchase a shooter that is matched and is generally nice condition. I want to be able to shoot it without fear that IÃ¢??ll hurt my investment or foul a piece of history. <hr></blockquote> This is impossible to guarantee, as pre 45 Lugers are obviously 55 to almost a 100 years old [img]wink.gif[/img] . So, your best bet is to buy one of the newer Mausers to shoot and enjoy. If you are looking for a collector / shooter, be aware that if you break a matching part, the value of a collector (shooter $450 - $600, collector prices $800 and up), the value of a collector will drop to a shooter price.

So, you do as some do on the forum, buy a collector for the looks, knowing it is all matching and shoot the heck out of it, but realize the value will drop dramatically if you damage it.
Or buy a beat up one and have it restored by Ted Green or someone else and then have a beauty that you can shoot the heck out of???

Stu · 11-26-2002, 11:34 AM

Hi Micheal. With reference to the mayberry gun; I believe the asking price is well in excess of $600.

I suspect the '$400 - $600' figures were mentioned as one post valued the gun, as refinished, at $500. I don't believe the owner would sell for that price. Try searching through gunbroker, auctionarms and gunsamerica to see what sellers believe their guns are worth [img]wink.gif[/img]

As a novice Luger enthusiast I'm always envious of those who come across bargains, and they are out there. However I've yet to find one ! From my limited and restricted investigations a presentable mismatched Luger, (a shooter), will probably fetch between $475 and $500, although you see guns that seemingly fall into that category sell for much more.

Should you find a good condition gun in the $400's you are probably getting a fair deal.

I think Edward's advice is spot on; if you want to shoot the gun then don't worry about matching parts .

People want a premium for matching guns and if what you want to do is shoot I wouldn't want to pay that premium !
WWII Lugers are well made but possibly not as well finished as their earlier counterparts so I wouldn't ignore a good buy just on that basis !

Good luck, and be prepared to be bitten by an expensive bug !

markm3 · 11-26-2002, 11:47 AM

Michael,

What I've done, if it is helpful, is place my unit marked First Issue WWI DWM and WWI 1915 DWM Artillery in presentation cases with their magazines and various tools. My two mismatched pieces are shooters, a 41/42 (Mauser) in very good shape (shoots beautifully) and a 1914 Erfurt Artillery that Ted Green (Thor) repaired (trigger problems) and beautifully reblued and restrawed. It is now as much fun to exhibit as it is to shoot, and vice versa.

Sort of the best of both worlds, from my perspective. I can enjoy and preserve the two matching pieces, with their historical provenance, and use the other two as they were intended. And, those both look more than good enough to attract attention when people come over. Thor's Erfurt restoration generates regular drooling. I recommend his wizardry very highly.

Pete Ebbink · 11-26-2002, 10:22 PM

Hello Michael,

Most of the big dealers do have "shooters" but you usually are paying a bit too much, what with their mark-ups.

I have attached a link to a nice shooter that is on an auction site with a "buy it now" price of $ 550.00. Just to give you an idea of what is out there. If you go to the Forum section entitled "Shooting & Reloading", a discussion about this luger was in a message thread entitled "Decent Shooter On Auction".

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temNum=3513084

There is a Forum member named Tom Heller; that always has some nice shooters for sale and has a good reputation for pricing and good working order in shooters. I have purchased all three (3) of my shooters from Tom. He can be reached at :

hellerarms@webtv.net

Regards,

Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

AGE · 11-26-2002, 11:51 PM

Michael,

There is a lot of good advice on buying Lugers, above. I have two myself, a $500 reblued '36 Mauser and a more expensive reconditioned Thor '15 DWM. They are really neat, but are also very old and expensive and poor choices as defense weapons because of the hard to access safety, tiny sights, and difficult triggers.

For serious social engagements I recommend a recent 1911 auto in .45 caliber or a .357 mag. if you prefer revolvers. For concealed carry, a compact 9 mm auto is hard to beat. These are all much more modern than the Luger and much cheaper and easier to shoot.

Still, the Luger is really neat (but I will sell mine long before my last 1911).

Michael Kasun · 11-27-2002, 10:18 AM

Thanks to everyone for their feedback. I'm sure I'll find what I'm looking for if I'm patient (not a strength of mine.

AGE,

I concur with your self defense assessments. I have a Kimber 1911 and a Taurus .357 (I bought that one for $125 new from a shop going out of business!) I like both very much. Thanks again.

MK

Edward Tinker · 11-27-2002, 10:36 AM

Traitors, we are all traitors [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

I keep a S&W 25-2 (45 ACP) by the side of the bed, she has been a most faithful companion for many years. (one of two, the other is married)

I'd use a Luger if needed, but like the punch of a 45 ACP...

markm3 · 11-27-2002, 12:38 PM

All true, and yet....

I was at the range last week, shooting my Thor redone Erfurt artillery and my 41/42, as well as my Walther P-38 and PP, a Browning Hi-Power, 1911 and Colt single-action army Ned Buntline (really) long barrel.

From my perspective, nothing came close to the enjoyment of shooting the two P08s. They are different shooting experiences, both enjoyable, but different. I found myself starting and ending my range time with the Lugers. It happens every time.

What is interesting is that, invariably, when fellow shooters comment or ask to see any of the firearms, it is the Lugers they are most curious about, with occasional interest demonstrated in the Walther P38 and the Buntline (a really fun shoot, I must admit).

But who am I telling all of this to...none of us would be here if we didn't already know there was mystique to the P08 that defies adequate description.

Edward Tinker · 11-27-2002, 12:54 PM

You've got it brother!

[img]smile.gif[/img]

11-26-2002, 10:27 AM	#1
Michael Kasun User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Manassas, VA Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Newbie with questions I am a brand new member of this forum and look forward to learning more about Lugers. I have scanned some of the threads and have determined IÃ¢??ve come to the right place for that. I have enjoyed shooting for many years but have only recently become interested in collecting military firearms. Since my father fought in WWII I am particularly interested firearms employed in that conflict. I recently had the pleasure of shooting a Luger for the first time. A friend of mine showed up with a well worn S/42 that shot amazingly well. I shot far better with his 60+ year old pistol than with my modern pistols. I am looking to purchase a shooter that is matched and is generally nice condition. I want to be able to shoot it without fear that IÃ¢??ll hurt my investment or foul a piece of history. I was greatly encouraged by the thread regarding MayberryÃ¢??s potential purchase. The photos seemed to show a very nicely preserved Luger and I was surprised that several forum members recommended purchasing the piece as a $500-600 shooter. I was impressed at the detailed analysis that led to that appraisal as well. My big questions are: Where can I purchase a Luger and feel confident that I will receive exactly what I am bargaining for? I get the impression that Ralph Shattuck is rather well thought of around here so he may be my man. If anyone has other suggestions IÃ¢??d like to hear about them. By the way, I saw an article that indicated that Ralph has 1,600 Lugers but on his web site there are only a relatively small number listed for sale. Is this merely because he only means to give web surfers a taste of his merchandise? Are there models/configurations that are known to shoot better than others? I would suspect that as WWII went on the general quality may have suffered. Is the Luger a durable/dependable weapon if properly maintained? Is it as hard to assemble/disassemble as it looks? Thanks in advance. MK

11-26-2002, 10:53 AM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Welcome to the forum! The Luger was made from the early 1900's, up to 1944/45 time frame and then Mauser made Lugers in the 70's, and also Mitchell and someone I am forgetting about made more. So, my point is that Lugers have been made for many years, in MANY configurations and styles. So, if you are looking for a "shooter", it will probably be mismatched, cosmetically damaged, possibly reblued or a newer one. Decide what you want and then look for one. Many Lugers have been sold in our "For Sale" section. [quote]I am looking to purchase a shooter that is matched and is generally nice condition. I want to be able to shoot it without fear that IÃ¢??ll hurt my investment or foul a piece of history. <hr></blockquote> This is impossible to guarantee, as pre 45 Lugers are obviously 55 to almost a 100 years old [img]wink.gif[/img] . So, your best bet is to buy one of the newer Mausers to shoot and enjoy. If you are looking for a collector / shooter, be aware that if you break a matching part, the value of a collector (shooter $450 - $600, collector prices $800 and up), the value of a collector will drop to a shooter price. So, you do as some do on the forum, buy a collector for the looks, knowing it is all matching and shoot the heck out of it, but realize the value will drop dramatically if you damage it. Or buy a beat up one and have it restored by Ted Green or someone else and then have a beauty that you can shoot the heck out of??? __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-26-2002, 11:47 AM	#4
markm3 User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 59 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Michael, What I've done, if it is helpful, is place my unit marked First Issue WWI DWM and WWI 1915 DWM Artillery in presentation cases with their magazines and various tools. My two mismatched pieces are shooters, a 41/42 (Mauser) in very good shape (shoots beautifully) and a 1914 Erfurt Artillery that Ted Green (Thor) repaired (trigger problems) and beautifully reblued and restrawed. It is now as much fun to exhibit as it is to shoot, and vice versa. Sort of the best of both worlds, from my perspective. I can enjoy and preserve the two matching pieces, with their historical provenance, and use the other two as they were intended. And, those both look more than good enough to attract attention when people come over. Thor's Erfurt restoration generates regular drooling. I recommend his wizardry very highly. __________________ markm3

11-26-2002, 11:51 PM	#6
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Michael, There is a lot of good advice on buying Lugers, above. I have two myself, a $500 reblued '36 Mauser and a more expensive reconditioned Thor '15 DWM. They are really neat, but are also very old and expensive and poor choices as defense weapons because of the hard to access safety, tiny sights, and difficult triggers. For serious social engagements I recommend a recent 1911 auto in .45 caliber or a .357 mag. if you prefer revolvers. For concealed carry, a compact 9 mm auto is hard to beat. These are all much more modern than the Luger and much cheaper and easier to shoot. Still, the Luger is really neat (but I will sell mine long before my last 1911). __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

11-27-2002, 10:36 AM	#8
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Traitors, we are all traitors [img]biggrin.gif[/img] I keep a S&W 25-2 (45 ACP) by the side of the bed, she has been a most faithful companion for many years. (one of two, the other is married) I'd use a Luger if needed, but like the punch of a 45 ACP... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-26-2002, 11:34 AM	#3
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Hi Micheal. With reference to the mayberry gun; I believe the asking price is well in excess of $600. I suspect the '$400 - $600' figures were mentioned as one post valued the gun, as refinished, at $500. I don't believe the owner would sell for that price. Try searching through gunbroker, auctionarms and gunsamerica to see what sellers believe their guns are worth [img]wink.gif[/img] As a novice Luger enthusiast I'm always envious of those who come across bargains, and they are out there. However I've yet to find one ! From my limited and restricted investigations a presentable mismatched Luger, (a shooter), will probably fetch between $475 and $500, although you see guns that seemingly fall into that category sell for much more. Should you find a good condition gun in the $400's you are probably getting a fair deal. I think Edward's advice is spot on; if you want to shoot the gun then don't worry about matching parts . People want a premium for matching guns and if what you want to do is shoot I wouldn't want to pay that premium ! WWII Lugers are well made but possibly not as well finished as their earlier counterparts so I wouldn't ignore a good buy just on that basis ! Good luck, and be prepared to be bitten by an expensive bug !

11-26-2002, 10:22 PM	#5
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Michael, Most of the big dealers do have "shooters" but you usually are paying a bit too much, what with their mark-ups. I have attached a link to a nice shooter that is on an auction site with a "buy it now" price of $ 550.00. Just to give you an idea of what is out there. If you go to the Forum section entitled "Shooting & Reloading", a discussion about this luger was in a message thread entitled "Decent Shooter On Auction". http://www.auctionarms.com/search/di...temNum=3513084 There is a Forum member named Tom Heller; that always has some nice shooters for sale and has a good reputation for pricing and good working order in shooters. I have purchased all three (3) of my shooters from Tom. He can be reached at : hellerarms@webtv.net Regards, Pete... <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

11-27-2002, 10:18 AM	#7
Michael Kasun User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Manassas, VA Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks to everyone for their feedback. I'm sure I'll find what I'm looking for if I'm patient (not a strength of mine. AGE, I concur with your self defense assessments. I have a Kimber 1911 and a Taurus .357 (I bought that one for $125 new from a shop going out of business!) I like both very much. Thanks again. MK

11-27-2002, 12:38 PM	#9
markm3 User Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 59 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	All true, and yet.... I was at the range last week, shooting my Thor redone Erfurt artillery and my 41/42, as well as my Walther P-38 and PP, a Browning Hi-Power, 1911 and Colt single-action army Ned Buntline (really) long barrel. From my perspective, nothing came close to the enjoyment of shooting the two P08s. They are different shooting experiences, both enjoyable, but different. I found myself starting and ending my range time with the Lugers. It happens every time. What is interesting is that, invariably, when fellow shooters comment or ask to see any of the firearms, it is the Lugers they are most curious about, with occasional interest demonstrated in the Walther P38 and the Buntline (a really fun shoot, I must admit). But who am I telling all of this to...none of us would be here if we didn't already know there was mystique to the P08 that defies adequate description. __________________ markm3

11-27-2002, 12:54 PM	#10
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	You've got it brother! [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV