Five Lugers in Yemen - Page 2

rabbrt · 12-13-2002, 01:08 PM

John et al,

Now that the photos are in the gallery, can you assess the approximate value of each? I have no intention of selling them, want to distribute them to family members, and keep one for me! However, I would like to know about what the market says they are worth.

Robert

John Sabato · 12-13-2002, 01:47 PM

Robert...

Placing a market value on your guns without a detailed examination of each one, to include determining whether or not the parts are all genuine matching numbers or were force matched by the east germans would be sketchy at best, but I can tell you this.

Guns in lesser condition sell on AuctionArms.com and Gunbroker.com every week for as little as $450 and as much as you paid for all five of them for EACH gun...

I would not sell them for less than $500 each...IF I were going to sell them...but I will not ever sell a Luger that I manage to possess.

I notice that 4 of the 5 magazines are the milled/extruded variety instead of the stamped and folded type... How are the bottoms marked? If they are original "FXO" marked magazines in good condition, the magazines alone are worth almost half of what you paid for all 5 of these guns.

rabbrt · 12-13-2002, 02:24 PM

John,

S/42 magazine marked with a number 2 then a serial number, doesn't match gun.

byf magazine marked with a serial number (doesn't match gun) the letter 'h' from the suffix page, and proof mark #46, with the number 83 below that.

Mauser banner magazine is marked with serial number (same as gun) and the number 2.

42 41 marked with the number 2 and serial number (same as gun).

DWM marked with the number 2 and serial number (same as gun).

Can you expand on "milled/extruded variety instead of the stamped and folded type... and "FXO" marked magazines.

I'm learning a lot, and enjoying it.

Robert

John Sabato · 12-13-2002, 02:51 PM

The milled or extruded type magazines have the appearance that they have been machined out of a single block of metal...because they are.

here is an example:

When you look at a folded sheet metal magazine's feed lips, you can plainly see that the magazine tube is made of two pieces (front and back) that are crimped together...

Naturally the milled type is the most durable.

rabbrt · 12-13-2002, 03:44 PM

John,

You're right, four of the five are milled, how could you see that without the magazines out?

Do the numbers I provided above shed any light?

Robert

John Sabato · 12-16-2002, 01:09 PM

I would tell you X-ray vision, but the truth is that the milled magazines just have a different appearance when they are in the pistol. The metal portion of the tube extends past the frame at the front when the magazine is installed.

The chances are that your magazines marked with matching numbers could very well be original, but that can't be determined without some very closeup photos of the tubes from both sides, and closeups of the bottoms from different angles... diagnosis from long distance must rely on good photos...

Big Norm · 12-17-2002, 07:20 PM

Robert,
so you are going to distribute them to family... I am your long lost brother on your dads side. Let me know when you get into town. We will have a few beers and exchange gifts that I have been saving for you all these years.
Big Norm <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

rabbrt2 · 10-10-2003, 01:49 AM

I just wanted to let everyone know that I finally accomplished shipping the Lugers from Yemen to the States.

For those interested, it was a pretty long process. Our initial application to the BATF was rejected on the basis of the Lugers being military. They stipulated that they must go through a licensed importer. However, Simpson's Ltd. was very helpful in this regard. Total time from application to receipt in the States was 9 months.

The beauracracy on the Yemen side was just as bad but circumvented with baksheesh.

I wanted to thank John Sabato for all his guidance. John, you are a gentleman!

Thor has got hold of two of them now, I can't wait to receive them!

Robert

John Sabato · 10-10-2003, 07:36 AM

My pleasure Robert... Glad these guns have a good home here in the U.S. with someone who appreciates them instead of being tucked into the waistband of a Yemeni cab driver... I spent a year in that part of the world back in the '70s and while grateful for the experience, I am glad I live HERE!

Thor · 10-10-2003, 10:52 AM

I have his nice K date, no joke, and his 1941 Banner Luger in my shop! The K date has been refinished before and shows some signs of missing stampings and numbers. The Banner is pretty nice with some pitting overall and on the barrel and grip straps especially. These Lugers are WELL WORTH what he paid for them. I dont know what the importation costs, but still I think he probably is well ahead of the game on these.

John Sabato · 10-10-2003, 01:01 PM

I hope we get to see good before and after photos Thor! So we can see that Luger magic that you weave...

Thor · 10-10-2003, 01:31 PM

You can see the before pictures on the members gallery about page 7 level.

jamese · 10-11-2003, 07:39 AM

Robert,

I have been trying to import a gun from Canada for the last 4 months, with little satisfaction thus far, my form 6 is Ã¢??still being processedÃ¢?Â is about the only words I can get out of BATF.

However I have heard that because the gun was military the application might be denied.

Investing another $200 - $300 to have it imported by a Ã¢??licensed importerÃ¢?Â is something that IÃ¢??m not prepared to do at this time.

Has anyone been successful lately (this Year) at getting Lugers from Canada on a form #6 ?
If so, I would like to hear from you

Thanks,
Jim

Thor · 07-23-2014, 09:41 AM

WOW, wouldnt this be a nice find! I was lucky to have worked on some of these after they came back.

Sergio Natali · 07-23-2014, 09:55 AM

Robert

I think that the best idea would be to post some photos just to have a better idea of what we are talking about.

alanint · 07-23-2014, 10:35 AM

Guys, this thread dates back to 2002! Alot of water over the bridge since then.

Comment by Alanint, emphasis by John S.

Thor · 07-23-2014, 11:14 AM

I was lucky enough to restore a K date Mauser, Banner Police and Black Widow byf. I have before and After pictures if you want to see them. The transformation is pretty stark.

alanint · 07-23-2014, 11:20 AM

How do you feel about Browning HPs, Thor?

I just ordered a pre 1963 early style pistol from AIM Surplus, (they sold out of the early models in 20 minutes!). They appear to be police trade-ins and although I chose the "select grade", I don't really know what I will be getting.

Thor · 07-23-2014, 11:31 AM

Fine Firearm, I have restored 1/2 a dozen I think.

12-13-2002, 01:47 PM	#22
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Robert... Placing a market value on your guns without a detailed examination of each one, to include determining whether or not the parts are all genuine matching numbers or were force matched by the east germans would be sketchy at best, but I can tell you this. Guns in lesser condition sell on AuctionArms.com and Gunbroker.com every week for as little as $450 and as much as you paid for all five of them for EACH gun... I would not sell them for less than $500 each...IF I were going to sell them...but I will not ever sell a Luger that I manage to possess. I notice that 4 of the 5 magazines are the milled/extruded variety instead of the stamped and folded type... How are the bottoms marked? If they are original "FXO" marked magazines in good condition, the magazines alone are worth almost half of what you paid for all 5 of these guns. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-13-2002, 02:51 PM	#24
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	The milled or extruded type magazines have the appearance that they have been machined out of a single block of metal...because they are. here is an example: When you look at a folded sheet metal magazine's feed lips, you can plainly see that the magazine tube is made of two pieces (front and back) that are crimped together... Naturally the milled type is the most durable. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-16-2002, 01:09 PM	#26
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	I would tell you X-ray vision, but the truth is that the milled magazines just have a different appearance when they are in the pistol. The metal portion of the tube extends past the frame at the front when the magazine is installed. The chances are that your magazines marked with matching numbers could very well be original, but that can't be determined without some very closeup photos of the tubes from both sides, and closeups of the bottoms from different angles... diagnosis from long distance must rely on good photos... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-10-2003, 07:36 AM	#29
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	My pleasure Robert... Glad these guns have a good home here in the U.S. with someone who appreciates them instead of being tucked into the waistband of a Yemeni cab driver... I spent a year in that part of the world back in the '70s and while grateful for the experience, I am glad I live HERE! __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-10-2003, 10:52 AM	#30
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I have his nice K date, no joke, and his 1941 Banner Luger in my shop! The K date has been refinished before and shows some signs of missing stampings and numbers. The Banner is pretty nice with some pitting overall and on the barrel and grip straps especially. These Lugers are WELL WORTH what he paid for them. I dont know what the importation costs, but still I think he probably is well ahead of the game on these. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

12-13-2002, 01:08 PM	#21
rabbrt User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John et al, Now that the photos are in the gallery, can you assess the approximate value of each? I have no intention of selling them, want to distribute them to family members, and keep one for me! However, I would like to know about what the market says they are worth. Robert

12-13-2002, 02:24 PM	#23
rabbrt User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John, S/42 magazine marked with a number 2 then a serial number, doesn't match gun. byf magazine marked with a serial number (doesn't match gun) the letter 'h' from the suffix page, and proof mark #46, with the number 83 below that. Mauser banner magazine is marked with serial number (same as gun) and the number 2. 42 41 marked with the number 2 and serial number (same as gun). DWM marked with the number 2 and serial number (same as gun). Can you expand on "milled/extruded variety instead of the stamped and folded type... and "FXO" marked magazines. I'm learning a lot, and enjoying it. Robert

12-13-2002, 03:44 PM	#25
rabbrt User Join Date: Dec 2002 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	John, You're right, four of the five are milled, how could you see that without the magazines out? Do the numbers I provided above shed any light? Robert

12-17-2002, 07:20 PM	#27
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Robert, so you are going to distribute them to family... I am your long lost brother on your dads side. Let me know when you get into town. We will have a few beers and exchange gifts that I have been saving for you all these years. Big Norm <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

10-10-2003, 01:49 AM	#28
rabbrt2 User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: South Central Pennsylvania Posts: 15 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I just wanted to let everyone know that I finally accomplished shipping the Lugers from Yemen to the States. For those interested, it was a pretty long process. Our initial application to the BATF was rejected on the basis of the Lugers being military. They stipulated that they must go through a licensed importer. However, Simpson's Ltd. was very helpful in this regard. Total time from application to receipt in the States was 9 months. The beauracracy on the Yemen side was just as bad but circumvented with baksheesh. I wanted to thank John Sabato for all his guidance. John, you are a gentleman! Thor has got hold of two of them now, I can't wait to receive them! Robert

10-10-2003, 01:01 PM	#31
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	I hope we get to see good before and after photos Thor! So we can see that Luger magic that you weave... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-10-2003, 01:31 PM	#32
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	You can see the before pictures on the members gallery about page 7 level. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

10-11-2003, 07:39 AM	#33
jamese User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: South Florida Posts: 792 Thanks: 0 Thanked 86 Times in 36 Posts	Robert, I have been trying to import a gun from Canada for the last 4 months, with little satisfaction thus far, my form 6 is Ã¢??still being processedÃ¢?Â is about the only words I can get out of BATF. However I have heard that because the gun was military the application might be denied. Investing another $200 - $300 to have it imported by a Ã¢??licensed importerÃ¢?Â is something that IÃ¢??m not prepared to do at this time. Has anyone been successful lately (this Year) at getting Lugers from Canada on a form #6 ? If so, I would like to hear from you Thanks, Jim __________________ The "truth" is a matter of Perception

07-23-2014, 09:41 AM	#34
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	WOW, wouldnt this be a nice find! I was lucky to have worked on some of these after they came back. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

07-23-2014, 09:55 AM	#35
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Robert I think that the best idea would be to post some photos just to have a better idea of what we are talking about. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

07-23-2014, 10:35 AM	#36
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	Guys, this thread dates back to 2002! Alot of water over the bridge since then. Comment by Alanint, emphasis by John S.

07-23-2014, 11:14 AM	#37
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I was lucky enough to restore a K date Mauser, Banner Police and Black Widow byf. I have before and After pictures if you want to see them. The transformation is pretty stark. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

07-23-2014, 11:20 AM	#38
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	How do you feel about Browning HPs, Thor? I just ordered a pre 1963 early style pistol from AIM Surplus, (they sold out of the early models in 20 minutes!). They appear to be police trade-ins and although I chose the "select grade", I don't really know what I will be getting.

07-23-2014, 11:31 AM	#39
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Fine Firearm, I have restored 1/2 a dozen I think. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."