What do you do if you by a lemon from Gunbroker?

Tony S. · 12-31-2003, 02:23 AM

Well, I felt into one of those traps. I purchased a gun described as excellent and when it came, it resulted to be an all matching reblued gun. I communicated to her that I wanted a full refund, but off course she does not want to refund what used to be my money. The seller did not disagree to the 3 day inspection during my early communications. I bought the gun supposedly from a widow and new into guns. Just trying to sell the guns from late husband. Can you say that I am a fish and just got hooked? Please don't answer! The interesting part is that she resides in one State, but the gun is shipped from another State by her boyfriend via a Lisenced dealer. Is there anything legal that I can do about this?
Thanks for the help, if there is any.
Tony

Tony S. · 12-31-2003, 02:24 AM

I meant Licensed dealer!!!
Tony

Arvin · 12-31-2003, 03:14 AM

Tony,
If she agreed to a 3 day inspection then hold her to it. The only other thing is if you paid by postal money order you could possinly go for mail fraud, but I don't know how that will hold up. It depends if you can prove the gun was obviously reblued. Thanks Arvin

Lugerdoc · 12-31-2003, 10:19 AM

Tony, If buying a gun unseen, it's alway better to purchase from those you know or at least can check their track record. We've all been burned at least once in the past. My philosphy in this situation is not to buy anything from a stranger (or personal ad) for more than the parts value, in case I have to sell it as parts. Ocassionally, I'm pleasantly surprised. TH

Edward Tinker · 12-31-2003, 10:59 AM

Tony, I would gather all my e-mails or phone discussions into one document. I think most people would have no idea it was reblued, esp if the person knew nothing about guns, although that is a hell of a good excuse to rip you off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" />

So, gather all the documentation, and send it to her, demanding your right to a 3-day inspection, that you are prepared to send it to postal service, attorny general etc., and FBI since it crossed state lines. All threats, but most people don't want to chance a gathered rebuttal?
At the least demand that she reimbuse you for the difference in a cost between a collector piece and a reblued piece? At least that way you get some money back.

Ed

policeluger · 12-31-2003, 12:15 PM

She may live close to the other state line, and I can't fault her there BUT...what about the auction site or magazine she used too sell the gun, and you get them too presasure her into a full refund, 3 days no passed or not? say did you get transfered to TX.?

George Anderson · 12-31-2003, 03:15 PM

Tony,
try a bluff, email or phone that since it was a BATF sanctioned transaction, and you feel that it was fraudulent, you are going to contact them. She may just be ignorant enough to "blink". After all, she gave it to a boyfriend to take across a state line, she misrepresented it, etc., etc. You may also drop the hint of your "federal government" affiliation.

Happy New Year and stay safe, george

MauserLugers · 12-31-2003, 05:58 PM

Tony,
This is a very common occurance these days. It happens when dealing with "widows", "collectors", and "dealers", as it is a part of collecting now days. If someone doesn't know you and they think you may not know the difference, they will leave stuff out of a description on purpose. Actual mistakes happen also.

In your case you can only call and voice your disappointment, stay firm with-in your rights of a 3 day inspection, and if not satisfied go after her with a lawyer. Depending on the value, that may not be the easiest or quickest way, but at least you'll have the feeling that you did something. The other option if she refuses to deal with you is to accept that you got taken.

I bought a couple of Lugers from a very respected dealer over the phone, thought I asked all the right questions and so forth, and when the Lugers came they were reblued and import marked. This was never mentioned by the seller. He did take them back, at my shipping expense both ways. Dealers are funny birds and if they know you, have heard of you, they treat you different than if you're new meat.

Another time I bought a K-date from a person who showed me pictures and ect. After many conversations we agreed on a price and when it arrived it was nothing like the pictures showed it to be. I contacted this person and said I'd like to return the piece as our agreement and was told that the money was already spent and they had no intention of returning it. After we visited a few times I concluded I would take them to court and fully intended to do so, but we agreed for me to keep the Luger and for them to give me a small refund. It wasn't enough, but something is better than nothing.

oldguy · 01-01-2004, 12:24 PM

The reality is that the loss usually does not justify the effort required to get your money back. More than a few sellers exploit this fact to increase profit.

Part of doing bussiness over the internet I guess. Sellers believe they are essentially anonymous and are willing to put up with a little whining.

I prefer to purchase from internet sites that have disucussion forums (such as this one). They generally have a forum to 'publicly' discuss a bad transaction. If a seller has too many bad transactions he has a difficult time selling anything else. Generally a persons real name and address are made public.

Auction sites have limited feedback and can not/will not curb unscrupulus behavior. They make their money from the sellers.

Tony S. · 01-01-2004, 10:48 PM

I appreciate everyones comments. I returned the gun last week and it is sitting at someones Gun shop (shipping point)far away from seller. I sent e-mails to seller but they go unanswered. I had done pretty much everything you have suggested even before I posted my concerns. The only thing I have left is to contact the ATF. I will do that tomorrow.
Thanks, Tony

Tony S. · 01-01-2004, 10:49 PM

Oh yes, I am in Texas.
Tony

MikeP · 01-01-2004, 11:59 PM

I have mentioned before that some of these people will stick these things as far up you as you will take them. They think you will not notice or want to suffer the two way shipping.
I have had this experience with two of the "big boys" as well as another or two. It really leaves a bad taste.
A few years ago someone on the forum advised to be wary of anybody who sells lugers for a living.

12-31-2003, 02:23 AM	#1
Tony S. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 173 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	What do you do if you by a lemon from Gunbroker? Well, I felt into one of those traps. I purchased a gun described as excellent and when it came, it resulted to be an all matching reblued gun. I communicated to her that I wanted a full refund, but off course she does not want to refund what used to be my money. The seller did not disagree to the 3 day inspection during my early communications. I bought the gun supposedly from a widow and new into guns. Just trying to sell the guns from late husband. Can you say that I am a fish and just got hooked? Please don't answer! The interesting part is that she resides in one State, but the gun is shipped from another State by her boyfriend via a Lisenced dealer. Is there anything legal that I can do about this? Thanks for the help, if there is any. Tony

12-31-2003, 10:19 AM	#4
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Tony, If buying a gun unseen, it's alway better to purchase from those you know or at least can check their track record. We've all been burned at least once in the past. My philosphy in this situation is not to buy anything from a stranger (or personal ad) for more than the parts value, in case I have to sell it as parts. Ocassionally, I'm pleasantly surprised. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

12-31-2003, 10:59 AM	#5
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,962 Thanks: 2,062 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	Tony, I would gather all my e-mails or phone discussions into one document. I think most people would have no idea it was reblued, esp if the person knew nothing about guns, although that is a hell of a good excuse to rip you off <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="eek.gif" /> So, gather all the documentation, and send it to her, demanding your right to a 3-day inspection, that you are prepared to send it to postal service, attorny general etc., and FBI since it crossed state lines. All threats, but most people don't want to chance a gathered rebuttal? At the least demand that she reimbuse you for the difference in a cost between a collector piece and a reblued piece? At least that way you get some money back. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

12-31-2003, 02:24 AM	#2
Tony S. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 173 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I meant Licensed dealer!!! Tony

12-31-2003, 03:14 AM	#3
Arvin User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Nebraska Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Tony, If she agreed to a 3 day inspection then hold her to it. The only other thing is if you paid by postal money order you could possinly go for mail fraud, but I don't know how that will hold up. It depends if you can prove the gun was obviously reblued. Thanks Arvin

12-31-2003, 12:15 PM	#6
policeluger RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca. Posts: 2,141 Thanks: 8 Thanked 89 Times in 54 Posts	She may live close to the other state line, and I can't fault her there BUT...what about the auction site or magazine she used too sell the gun, and you get them too presasure her into a full refund, 3 days no passed or not? say did you get transfered to TX.?

12-31-2003, 03:15 PM	#7
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	Tony, try a bluff, email or phone that since it was a BATF sanctioned transaction, and you feel that it was fraudulent, you are going to contact them. She may just be ignorant enough to "blink". After all, she gave it to a boyfriend to take across a state line, she misrepresented it, etc., etc. You may also drop the hint of your "federal government" affiliation. Happy New Year and stay safe, george

12-31-2003, 05:58 PM	#8
MauserLugers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Philipsburg, Montana 59858 Posts: 250 Thanks: 0 Thanked 8 Times in 1 Post	Tony, This is a very common occurance these days. It happens when dealing with "widows", "collectors", and "dealers", as it is a part of collecting now days. If someone doesn't know you and they think you may not know the difference, they will leave stuff out of a description on purpose. Actual mistakes happen also. In your case you can only call and voice your disappointment, stay firm with-in your rights of a 3 day inspection, and if not satisfied go after her with a lawyer. Depending on the value, that may not be the easiest or quickest way, but at least you'll have the feeling that you did something. The other option if she refuses to deal with you is to accept that you got taken. I bought a couple of Lugers from a very respected dealer over the phone, thought I asked all the right questions and so forth, and when the Lugers came they were reblued and import marked. This was never mentioned by the seller. He did take them back, at my shipping expense both ways. Dealers are funny birds and if they know you, have heard of you, they treat you different than if you're new meat. Another time I bought a K-date from a person who showed me pictures and ect. After many conversations we agreed on a price and when it arrived it was nothing like the pictures showed it to be. I contacted this person and said I'd like to return the piece as our agreement and was told that the money was already spent and they had no intention of returning it. After we visited a few times I concluded I would take them to court and fully intended to do so, but we agreed for me to keep the Luger and for them to give me a small refund. It wasn't enough, but something is better than nothing.

01-01-2004, 12:24 PM	#9
oldguy User Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: IL Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The reality is that the loss usually does not justify the effort required to get your money back. More than a few sellers exploit this fact to increase profit. Part of doing bussiness over the internet I guess. Sellers believe they are essentially anonymous and are willing to put up with a little whining. I prefer to purchase from internet sites that have disucussion forums (such as this one). They generally have a forum to 'publicly' discuss a bad transaction. If a seller has too many bad transactions he has a difficult time selling anything else. Generally a persons real name and address are made public. Auction sites have limited feedback and can not/will not curb unscrupulus behavior. They make their money from the sellers.

01-01-2004, 10:48 PM	#10
Tony S. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 173 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I appreciate everyones comments. I returned the gun last week and it is sitting at someones Gun shop (shipping point)far away from seller. I sent e-mails to seller but they go unanswered. I had done pretty much everything you have suggested even before I posted my concerns. The only thing I have left is to contact the ATF. I will do that tomorrow. Thanks, Tony

01-01-2004, 10:49 PM	#11
Tony S. User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 173 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Oh yes, I am in Texas. Tony

01-01-2004, 11:59 PM	#12
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	I have mentioned before that some of these people will stick these things as far up you as you will take them. They think you will not notice or want to suffer the two way shipping. I have had this experience with two of the "big boys" as well as another or two. It really leaves a bad taste. A few years ago someone on the forum advised to be wary of anybody who sells lugers for a living.