Humans are intelligent?

wterrell · 03-31-2003, 08:54 PM

I am going to ask this question one more time: Why in the world would anyone bid on an item up for auction on the internet long before the end of the session?
If they win the item, they PAY for it through the nose because they pay a premium above what the item is worth. That, gentlemen, is not too shiny!

Stu · 03-31-2003, 09:01 PM

I'd have to agree with your comment Wes. Very occasionly I'll put the first bid on $1 above the start price so it shows up on the 'items you bid on' list, jsut to make it easy to find. Anyone making a serious bid before the last 10 minutes is taking a risk as far as I'm concerned !

Having said that I did this myself last night on a pair of P38 grips; the auction ended around midnight, so I put in my max bid at around 9 and ended up winning at $2 more than the price when I started, but I was asking to be taken for a ride.

wterrell · 03-31-2003, 09:06 PM

Stu,
On another discussion board I posted the following (which is quoted below) with the above plus the URL to the auction which had caused my inquiry:

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> So, gentlemen, shall we play a game of psychology? I believe that I can run a man's bid up to the max by guesswork. There are three hours left on an item on Ebay at the time of this post. If anyone will post in reply to go for it, I will run up his bid and leave him winning with a higher cost.

Any takers? Anyone want to slam me for the effort?
<hr /></blockquote>

Haven't had a reply yet.

Stu · 03-31-2003, 09:55 PM

I've certainly seen people get gripped by the fever and pay far more that I'd consider reasonable for an item by bidding early.

Another aspect is people who time their auction to end during the night or working day; it intrigues me as to the effect this has. Are they hoping people will enter a high bid early, in an effort to win in their 'absence' at the end of the auction, or are people put off bidding at all by not being able to place bids during the closing moments ? The latter is certainly true of myself.

The topic may warrant further investigation.

wterrell · 03-31-2003, 10:02 PM

Stu,
You may have put too much thought into the subject and your assumptions deserve more study. However, I have a simpler answer: people are idiots.

The picture below shows why this magazine is worth about $25. Notice the chip and the dent.

Navy · 03-31-2003, 10:41 PM

Gents and especially Wes,

While I agree completely that a substantial part of the human race is a total waste of DNA, there is at least one very good reason for maxing out an auction bid early: You know what you wish to pay for an item.

This saves loads of time and angst by avoiding the "Damn, I gotta check on my bids" scenario.

I see something I like, figure what is the max I will pay and that is my opening (and generally my closing) bid.

The lesson I have learned over time is that almost ANYTHING you seek will come up at auction again; the rarer stuff comes flowing out as the prices rise. There is some ecomomics platitude that addresses this, but I don't remember which Scotsman wrote it down.

Damn, ain't America great! Get enough money chasing something and it will appear.
My zwei pfennigs.
Tom A.

wterrell · 03-31-2003, 11:41 PM

Tom,
Just buying a thing is no challenge. Lay down the money and its bought. But if you can snatch it from under the noses of the greedy, that is fulfilling.
I always put my max bid well over the price others are willing to pay, but very seldom is that limit reached. This is done in the very last minute of an auction. Others do the very same thing and sometimes it comes down to strategy and photo finishes. While others are readjusting their max bid, the clock runs out.
Greedy bidders are frustrating, though.

Another thing....Always paying the maximum for anything one wants has reduced many a wealthy man to penury.

Lugerdoc · 04-01-2003, 09:16 AM

Wes, Not all of us are Night Hawks, that enjoy staying up until midnight to play the auction. If I can't buy an item at a reasonable price, I don't need it. Tom H.

Stu · 04-01-2003, 09:11 PM

I understand Wes's strategy and I think it's reasonable, (and one I emulate to a large degree). I have to agree with Tom I'm not prepared to stay up to midnight to follow it though !

Of course it's largely defeated by gunbroker that extends the auction end by 15 mins each time a bid is placed during the last 15 minutes, a boon to the seller, I think. (Or is it auctionarms, I can't remember).

wterrell · 04-01-2003, 09:52 PM

Gentlemen,
I have tried very diligently to portray myself as being quite greedy and no one has jumped on me for trying to snag items at the last minute from the 'greedy'. I commend you all for your manners and civility. But it puzzles me.

Stu · 04-01-2003, 10:08 PM

Wes, I think it quite sensible to pay the minimum price someone will accept for an item. I have to confess no notion of 'greed' passed through my mind.

Should you like to goad us a little further, I'm afraid you'll have to be a little more obvious to provoke a response from myself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

(Or does this just demonstrate I'm greedy myself, curses, self realization at last).

wterrell · 04-01-2003, 10:27 PM

Stu,
Here is a similar thread of mine which expressed the same sentiment. All posters to the thread were extremely polite and did not rail against me for being small of spirit.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Man! It's getting difficult to snag something at the last second on Ebay! Watched this item all week and planned to snap it up at the last moment and all the self-centered, greedy people beat me out of it. It was quite a brawl in the last 60 seconds and I was totally left out of the running. Talk about pushy people! I have to figure a way to muscle all the horders out. <hr /></blockquote>

The civility of Luger collectors is amazing!

AGE · 04-02-2003, 12:48 AM

Wes and others,

Maybe it's the nature of Luger collectors and other gun nuts to be civil. I used to play golf, usually on weekends since I worked during the week. Weekend golfers (especially Saturday morning golfers) must be the worlds nastiest people.

Then I took up pistol shooting. At the range everybody is very polite to the guy with the loaded .45.

Stu · 04-02-2003, 08:55 PM

Wes, I seem to remember seeing ads for automated bidding software that would wait until a predetermined moment to place a bid; that might help slip your 'oar' into the proceedings at the last moment !

I have to confess to gaining a degree of pleasure from watching an auction in the last few seconds, timing when to place my bid, (usually in the last 6 seconds). Ah well, little things please little minds, as my grandmother always told me when I was particularly obnoxious <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

As to escalating prices; am I missing something to do with the value of this canon assembly, it seems to be bid pretty high:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=31709

wterrell · 04-02-2003, 11:59 PM

Sniping software or services will win an item is no other person is determined to have it. It will refresh only so often and the rabid human bidder will snag it in the last few seconds.
I would rather not use sniping software.

Pete Ebbink · 04-11-2003, 11:41 AM

Hello Wes,

I follow the "auction advice" the folks behind the Gun Blue Book print in the forwarding pages of their gun pricing guide :

I determine what my "maximum" price on an item is and submit that price (hidden of course...). I do this both for "bricks & motar" auctions as well as for on-line auctions.

Submitting this maximum price early or late does not matter, to me...

Then I discipline myself to sit quietly and wait for the auction to be held. The discipline part comes in as the bidding approaches my maximum and I contain myself from going beyond that...

Many times I am not even aware of the bidding process or when it closes...

Sometimes I win; sometimes I loose. If it is not my "karma" to have a thing, it was not meant for me...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Stevie · 04-13-2003, 11:50 AM

My wife buys photoghraphy gear on E-bay, and tends to bid too much to soon. I believe the answer to Wes's question would revolve around the auction itself,people just go crazy with the "wants" and some primal urge to dominate and protect and own the merchandise. Typical auction behaviour. I hate getting "sniped",and I usually don't, Just bid and hope, but sometimes I will do a little sniping. Better to snipe and lose than never to have sniped at all!

Stevie.

Pete Ebbink · 04-13-2003, 12:26 PM

Well Wes and Stevie,

You guys must have been asleep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> during this auction :

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ME:B:EOAB:US:6

I got a very good price on the Luthy luger muzzle cover and it was the same item listed for sale in the Ads section of the Luger Forum for much, much more...the auctioning did not even approach my "maximum' bid I had submitted...

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Stevie · 04-13-2003, 01:41 PM

Hey,Pete! I sure would feel bad sniping you out of something that fits a gun I don't even own. As far as Parabellums go, I'm a P08 man.

Yikes! If the muzzle cover costs that much, I'd sure hate to buy a cleaning rod. I guess I shouldn't comment, I just spent more than that on some repro. pistol holsters. At least your getting the real deal(worth a lot).

Stevie.

wterrell · 04-13-2003, 01:43 PM

Pete,
No, I was not asleep. I saw this item and I also saw the cover listed on this forum. I figured some wise acre was trying to run up the price on the auction by advertising a similar item here and try to convince everyone that it is worth a fortune. Far too much coincidence. Old trick!
Happy that you got it.
Sometimes you just have to let the cattle graze.

03-31-2003, 08:54 PM	#1
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Humans are intelligent? I am going to ask this question one more time: Why in the world would anyone bid on an item up for auction on the internet long before the end of the session? If they win the item, they PAY for it through the nose because they pay a premium above what the item is worth. That, gentlemen, is not too shiny! __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

03-31-2003, 09:06 PM	#3
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Stu, On another discussion board I posted the following (which is quoted below) with the above plus the URL to the auction which had caused my inquiry: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> So, gentlemen, shall we play a game of psychology? I believe that I can run a man's bid up to the max by guesswork. There are three hours left on an item on Ebay at the time of this post. If anyone will post in reply to go for it, I will run up his bid and leave him winning with a higher cost. Any takers? Anyone want to slam me for the effort? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> Haven't had a reply yet. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

03-31-2003, 10:02 PM	#5
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Stu, You may have put too much thought into the subject and your assumptions deserve more study. However, I have a simpler answer: people are idiots. The picture below shows why this magazine is worth about $25. Notice the chip and the dent. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

03-31-2003, 11:41 PM	#7
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Tom, Just buying a thing is no challenge. Lay down the money and its bought. But if you can snatch it from under the noses of the greedy, that is fulfilling. I always put my max bid well over the price others are willing to pay, but very seldom is that limit reached. This is done in the very last minute of an auction. Others do the very same thing and sometimes it comes down to strategy and photo finishes. While others are readjusting their max bid, the clock runs out. Greedy bidders are frustrating, though. Another thing....Always paying the maximum for anything one wants has reduced many a wealthy man to penury. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

04-01-2003, 09:16 AM	#8
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Wes, Not all of us are Night Hawks, that enjoy staying up until midnight to play the auction. If I can't buy an item at a reasonable price, I don't need it. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

03-31-2003, 09:01 PM	#2
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	I'd have to agree with your comment Wes. Very occasionly I'll put the first bid on $1 above the start price so it shows up on the 'items you bid on' list, jsut to make it easy to find. Anyone making a serious bid before the last 10 minutes is taking a risk as far as I'm concerned ! Having said that I did this myself last night on a pair of P38 grips; the auction ended around midnight, so I put in my max bid at around 9 and ended up winning at $2 more than the price when I started, but I was asking to be taken for a ride.

03-31-2003, 09:55 PM	#4
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	I've certainly seen people get gripped by the fever and pay far more that I'd consider reasonable for an item by bidding early. Another aspect is people who time their auction to end during the night or working day; it intrigues me as to the effect this has. Are they hoping people will enter a high bid early, in an effort to win in their 'absence' at the end of the auction, or are people put off bidding at all by not being able to place bids during the closing moments ? The latter is certainly true of myself. The topic may warrant further investigation.

03-31-2003, 10:41 PM	#6
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Gents and especially Wes, While I agree completely that a substantial part of the human race is a total waste of DNA, there is at least one very good reason for maxing out an auction bid early: You know what you wish to pay for an item. This saves loads of time and angst by avoiding the "Damn, I gotta check on my bids" scenario. I see something I like, figure what is the max I will pay and that is my opening (and generally my closing) bid. The lesson I have learned over time is that almost ANYTHING you seek will come up at auction again; the rarer stuff comes flowing out as the prices rise. There is some ecomomics platitude that addresses this, but I don't remember which Scotsman wrote it down. Damn, ain't America great! Get enough money chasing something and it will appear. My zwei pfennigs. Tom A.

04-01-2003, 09:11 PM	#9
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	I understand Wes's strategy and I think it's reasonable, (and one I emulate to a large degree). I have to agree with Tom I'm not prepared to stay up to midnight to follow it though ! Of course it's largely defeated by gunbroker that extends the auction end by 15 mins each time a bid is placed during the last 15 minutes, a boon to the seller, I think. (Or is it auctionarms, I can't remember).

04-01-2003, 09:52 PM	#10
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Gentlemen, I have tried very diligently to portray myself as being quite greedy and no one has jumped on me for trying to snag items at the last minute from the 'greedy'. I commend you all for your manners and civility. But it puzzles me. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

04-01-2003, 10:08 PM	#11
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Wes, I think it quite sensible to pay the minimum price someone will accept for an item. I have to confess no notion of 'greed' passed through my mind. Should you like to goad us a little further, I'm afraid you'll have to be a little more obvious to provoke a response from myself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> (Or does this just demonstrate I'm greedy myself, curses, self realization at last).

04-01-2003, 10:27 PM	#12
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Stu, Here is a similar thread of mine which expressed the same sentiment. All posters to the thread were extremely polite and did not rail against me for being small of spirit. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> Man! It's getting difficult to snag something at the last second on Ebay! Watched this item all week and planned to snap it up at the last moment and all the self-centered, greedy people beat me out of it. It was quite a brawl in the last 60 seconds and I was totally left out of the running. Talk about pushy people! I have to figure a way to muscle all the horders out. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> The civility of Luger collectors is amazing! __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

04-02-2003, 12:48 AM	#13
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Wes and others, Maybe it's the nature of Luger collectors and other gun nuts to be civil. I used to play golf, usually on weekends since I worked during the week. Weekend golfers (especially Saturday morning golfers) must be the worlds nastiest people. Then I took up pistol shooting. At the range everybody is very polite to the guy with the loaded .45. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

04-02-2003, 08:55 PM	#14
Stu User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 452 Thanks: 4 Thanked 25 Times in 16 Posts	Wes, I seem to remember seeing ads for automated bidding software that would wait until a predetermined moment to place a bid; that might help slip your 'oar' into the proceedings at the last moment ! I have to confess to gaining a degree of pleasure from watching an auction in the last few seconds, timing when to place my bid, (usually in the last 6 seconds). Ah well, little things please little minds, as my grandmother always told me when I was particularly obnoxious <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> As to escalating prices; am I missing something to do with the value of this canon assembly, it seems to be bid pretty high: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=31709

04-02-2003, 11:59 PM	#15
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Sniping software or services will win an item is no other person is determined to have it. It will refresh only so often and the rabid human bidder will snag it in the last few seconds. I would rather not use sniping software. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

04-11-2003, 11:41 AM	#16
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Wes, I follow the "auction advice" the folks behind the Gun Blue Book print in the forwarding pages of their gun pricing guide : I determine what my "maximum" price on an item is and submit that price (hidden of course...). I do this both for "bricks & motar" auctions as well as for on-line auctions. Submitting this maximum price early or late does not matter, to me... Then I discipline myself to sit quietly and wait for the auction to be held. The discipline part comes in as the bidding approaches my maximum and I contain myself from going beyond that... Many times I am not even aware of the bidding process or when it closes... Sometimes I win; sometimes I loose. If it is not my "karma" to have a thing, it was not meant for me... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

04-13-2003, 11:50 AM	#17
Stevie User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ok. Posts: 212 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My wife buys photoghraphy gear on E-bay, and tends to bid too much to soon. I believe the answer to Wes's question would revolve around the auction itself,people just go crazy with the "wants" and some primal urge to dominate and protect and own the merchandise. Typical auction behaviour. I hate getting "sniped",and I usually don't, Just bid and hope, but sometimes I will do a little sniping. Better to snipe and lose than never to have sniped at all! Stevie.

04-13-2003, 12:26 PM	#18
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Well Wes and Stevie, You guys must have been asleep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> during this auction : http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ME:B:EOAB:US:6 I got a very good price on the Luthy luger muzzle cover and it was the same item listed for sale in the Ads section of the Luger Forum for much, much more...the auctioning did not even approach my "maximum' bid I had submitted... Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

04-13-2003, 01:41 PM	#19
Stevie User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Ok. Posts: 212 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hey,Pete! I sure would feel bad sniping you out of something that fits a gun I don't even own. As far as Parabellums go, I'm a P08 man. Yikes! If the muzzle cover costs that much, I'd sure hate to buy a cleaning rod. I guess I shouldn't comment, I just spent more than that on some repro. pistol holsters. At least your getting the real deal(worth a lot). Stevie.

04-13-2003, 01:43 PM	#20
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Pete, No, I was not asleep. I saw this item and I also saw the cover listed on this forum. I figured some wise acre was trying to run up the price on the auction by advertising a similar item here and try to convince everyone that it is worth a fortune. Far too much coincidence. Old trick! Happy that you got it. Sometimes you just have to let the cattle graze. __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------