Numbered replacement parts! ????

G.T. · 08-29-2002, 08:43 PM

Recently, I've collected quite a few arsenal replacement parts, many from over seas... it is easy to see that they are all original, new, and have never been installed!! My question is, why are some of them numbered??? It is obvious they were taken right off the line..... I wonder about the complete pistol being numbered after assembly theory.... maybe they were assembled from assorted pre-numbered parts.... before you think this imposible and time consuming...have you ever seen an old master set type for printing??? I am rethinking the whole deal....till...later...G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

John Sabato · 08-30-2002, 07:27 AM

GT,

Perhaps the new parts with numbers were part of a batch that were created and numbered as specific replacements for weapons turned in for depot repair, but the war ended and they were never mated with their intended spare parts.

They also could have been on the production line and were scrounged by occupation troops I guess.

We could guess all day [img]confused.gif[/img]

I would like to know how you find out about such parts available for sale overseas?

G.T. · 08-30-2002, 08:13 AM

Hi John! Yes, the numbered replacement parts is a very perplexing mystery to me! As to finding them, one has to beat the bushes, so to speak.... If you see an ebay seller with a large amount of a specific part, it's a pretty safe bet that they are the remanents of am old armours repare kit... especially ones with the 42 code on them.... also I have noticed that the blue seems to be pretty much the same on all, regardless of where the parts were purchased from... one simply has to ask at that point! There is a lot of undiscovered stuff out there! "Rare and elusive, but ever present" till...later...G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

lugerholsterrepair · 08-30-2002, 10:56 AM

G.T., I do not have a theory to answere your question but I am looking for a side plate...Have one of those? Thanks , Jerry

TBeardmore · 08-30-2002, 01:19 PM

GT -

I'm looking for a side plate and takedown lever with "99" on them. If you have either, I'd be interested...

Or, for that matter, if you have either part un-numbered, I'd consider that as well!

Tom <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />

Garfield · 08-30-2002, 01:43 PM

G.T.:

I have always thought that the small parts were made up in prenumbered lots; there were only 100 two diget numbers to deal with, right? These parts would then be placed in "bins" for assembly. Always hoped to find pics of the pistols being put together. To my way of thinking, it does not seem at all conceivable that when assembling a specific luger each small part would be hand numbered to that gun. Or that one person did an entire pistol.

Just my opinion.

Roadkill · 08-30-2002, 02:56 PM

Where were Lugers assembled in the later years? Would like as specific information as possible. Towns, factory names, ect.

RK

John Sabato · 08-30-2002, 03:01 PM

It is indeed unfortunate that apparently no photographs have ever turned up that showed Lugers in different processes of manufacturing...

Something like a shop manual for production machinists and assemblers would be great to examine, and reproduce here on the forum.

unspellable · 08-30-2002, 03:54 PM

I think there is at least one vintage era photo of Luger manufacture in the Luger Encyclopedia.

There is also at least one of the Mauser re-intro era.

I will not say Interarms because only those destined for the US market went through Interarms. I have one made for the Italian market that then went through Interarms so that it has the Interarms logo but the Italian type serial number.
(US intended SN's start with 10.xx... or 11.xx... The Italian numbers start RGxxx

Roadkill · 08-30-2002, 08:36 PM

Garfield, that makes sense. It would most likely require special jigs to hold the small parts in place for stamping, too many to be at one assembly work station. It would be possible to hand fit small prenumbered parts to a frame & cannon assembly and then stamp the proofs and block series. The barrel would already be proofed with bore diameter ect. prior to assembly.

RK

Garfield · 08-30-2002, 08:44 PM

There you go, RK.

G.T. · 08-30-2002, 08:48 PM

I am inclined to think you guys are right!! As it would be pretty hard to be mix stamping and assembly at the same station, or even area! Sorry Jerry & Tom, no side plates or take down levers right now, but I shall keep on the lookout!! Pretty interesting thread..... perhaps some of our more knowledgable members will have some insight! till...later...G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

Roadkill · 08-30-2002, 10:00 PM

Could also explain the differences in the fonts in some guns considered to be force matched? But this is carrying it a little too far. Really, you just can't stamp a "94" on a round firing pin free hand on a table and get it consistently right, same with the other parts. Had to have been done when manufactured in a jig with the same configuration as the part to hold it. We've seen post war East German stampings done on completed gun, some have even dented the frames.

RK

Lugerdoc · 08-31-2002, 10:00 AM

John S, You might find the photo on page 134 of John Walter's book "Luger" of interest. It shows "stages of production of a Mauser Parabellum from first forging or bar stock to the finished parts." I'd email you the photo, if I had a photo capable computer. Tom H.

08-29-2002, 08:43 PM	#1
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,528 Thanks: 1,334 Thanked 3,711 Times in 1,014 Posts	Numbered replacement parts! ???? Recently, I've collected quite a few arsenal replacement parts, many from over seas... it is easy to see that they are all original, new, and have never been installed!! My question is, why are some of them numbered??? It is obvious they were taken right off the line..... I wonder about the complete pistol being numbered after assembly theory.... maybe they were assembled from assorted pre-numbered parts.... before you think this imposible and time consuming...have you ever seen an old master set type for printing??? I am rethinking the whole deal....till...later...G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

08-30-2002, 07:27 AM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	GT, Perhaps the new parts with numbers were part of a batch that were created and numbered as specific replacements for weapons turned in for depot repair, but the war ended and they were never mated with their intended spare parts. They also could have been on the production line and were scrounged by occupation troops I guess. We could guess all day [img]confused.gif[/img] I would like to know how you find out about such parts available for sale overseas? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-30-2002, 10:56 AM	#4
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	G.T., I do not have a theory to answere your question but I am looking for a side plate...Have one of those? Thanks , Jerry __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

08-30-2002, 03:01 PM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	It is indeed unfortunate that apparently no photographs have ever turned up that showed Lugers in different processes of manufacturing... Something like a shop manual for production machinists and assemblers would be great to examine, and reproduce here on the forum. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

08-31-2002, 10:00 AM	#14
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	John S, You might find the photo on page 134 of John Walter's book "Luger" of interest. It shows "stages of production of a Mauser Parabellum from first forging or bar stock to the finished parts." I'd email you the photo, if I had a photo capable computer. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

08-30-2002, 08:13 AM	#3
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,528 Thanks: 1,334 Thanked 3,711 Times in 1,014 Posts	Hi John! Yes, the numbered replacement parts is a very perplexing mystery to me! As to finding them, one has to beat the bushes, so to speak.... If you see an ebay seller with a large amount of a specific part, it's a pretty safe bet that they are the remanents of am old armours repare kit... especially ones with the 42 code on them.... also I have noticed that the blue seems to be pretty much the same on all, regardless of where the parts were purchased from... one simply has to ask at that point! There is a lot of undiscovered stuff out there! "Rare and elusive, but ever present" till...later...G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

08-30-2002, 01:19 PM	#5
TBeardmore User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	GT - I'm looking for a side plate and takedown lever with "99" on them. If you have either, I'd be interested... Or, for that matter, if you have either part un-numbered, I'd consider that as well! Tom <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />

08-30-2002, 01:43 PM	#6
Garfield User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A little SE of Nome Posts: 239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	G.T.: I have always thought that the small parts were made up in prenumbered lots; there were only 100 two diget numbers to deal with, right? These parts would then be placed in "bins" for assembly. Always hoped to find pics of the pistols being put together. To my way of thinking, it does not seem at all conceivable that when assembling a specific luger each small part would be hand numbered to that gun. Or that one person did an entire pistol. Just my opinion.

08-30-2002, 02:56 PM	#7
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,634 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Where were Lugers assembled in the later years? Would like as specific information as possible. Towns, factory names, ect. RK

08-30-2002, 03:54 PM	#9
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	I think there is at least one vintage era photo of Luger manufacture in the Luger Encyclopedia. There is also at least one of the Mauser re-intro era. I will not say Interarms because only those destined for the US market went through Interarms. I have one made for the Italian market that then went through Interarms so that it has the Interarms logo but the Italian type serial number. (US intended SN's start with 10.xx... or 11.xx... The Italian numbers start RGxxx

08-30-2002, 08:36 PM	#10
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,634 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Garfield, that makes sense. It would most likely require special jigs to hold the small parts in place for stamping, too many to be at one assembly work station. It would be possible to hand fit small prenumbered parts to a frame & cannon assembly and then stamp the proofs and block series. The barrel would already be proofed with bore diameter ect. prior to assembly. RK

08-30-2002, 08:44 PM	#11
Garfield User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: A little SE of Nome Posts: 239 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	There you go, RK.

08-30-2002, 08:48 PM	#12
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,528 Thanks: 1,334 Thanked 3,711 Times in 1,014 Posts	I am inclined to think you guys are right!! As it would be pretty hard to be mix stamping and assembly at the same station, or even area! Sorry Jerry & Tom, no side plates or take down levers right now, but I shall keep on the lookout!! Pretty interesting thread..... perhaps some of our more knowledgable members will have some insight! till...later...G.T. <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

08-30-2002, 10:00 PM	#13
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,634 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Could also explain the differences in the fonts in some guns considered to be force matched? But this is carrying it a little too far. Really, you just can't stamp a "94" on a round firing pin free hand on a table and get it consistently right, same with the other parts. Had to have been done when manufactured in a jig with the same configuration as the part to hold it. We've seen post war East German stampings done on completed gun, some have even dented the frames. RK