First UPS and now FEDEX

Thor · 10-01-2004, 05:47 PM

<img border="0" alt="[soapbox]" title="" src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" /> Wow, these guys will put us out of business. I think there is a plot to shut down the small business firearm dealer/gunsmiths in this country. We used UPS pretty exclusively to ship firearms to people that sent them to us to restore. They got exceedingly difficult to deal with over the 2 years we used them. We finally gave up and started using FEDEX. They used to greet us with a smile and be so cordial and shipped firearms fine. Today Natalie was shipping a Luger and they said "sorry we can only ship dealer to dealer" In this case, it was dealer to dealer and luckily I had put a copy of my dealers license in the box and even after the had opened the box, then there was another 15 minutes wait while the FEDEX folks went in the back and had a conference before they would return and proceed to ship it. The lines got longer and more people had to wait longer. Another customer behind her was quizzed in depth about a piece of a cabinet he was shipping, "what the hey"? I wish there was a company that didnt ship anything but firearms. We looked their policy up again
(CLICK here for FEDEX firearms policy)

and it doesnt say dealer to dealer only! I hate to have to have an arguementative discussion with them everytime I ship a gun back! What a mess!
(Rant mode off)

Edward Tinker · 10-01-2004, 06:39 PM

Write a letter to the district manager, state that the employees were wrong in what they stated, that their rules state they can be shipped and you do not understand.

Written documentation to them brings amazing results. Ensure it gets to the right person, and cc that office you had problems with and the regional and national offices.

Ed

lugerholsterrepair · 10-01-2004, 06:56 PM

Good advice Ed! Jerry Burney

Navy · 10-01-2004, 07:54 PM

Be certain to get and mention the names of the FEDEX cretins with whom you were dealing...should result in some instant *refresher* training for the counter monkeys.

Few things p*$$ me off more than some crankshaft who decides he is going to do ad hoc policy making. When I encounter such, if, after reasonable discussions I am unsuccessful, I go after the foron/moonbat.

I am not very nice when abused by some clerk who has arbitrarily decided to say no.

Tom A.

Lloyd in Nevada · 10-01-2004, 08:32 PM

Tom,

Right ON! and AMEN!

Big Norm · 10-01-2004, 09:43 PM

Be a little cautious on 'dealer' to 'dealer' too. A C&R license is not a dealers license. I had trouble with a UPS counter person too until I displayed C&R licenses for both me and the receiver. If the counter guy knew the difference between the two licenses he might have been able to stop me. I am also iritated that some stranger has to seal up my
shipping box.
Big Norm

Thor · 10-01-2004, 09:48 PM

Yep, you are right! In this case, it was both dealers but here is what FEDEXs site says:

You agree to tender shipments of firearms to us only when either the shipper or recipient is a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed dealer or licensed collector and is not prohibited from making such shipments by federal, state or local regulations

pipeman45 · 10-03-2004, 04:11 AM

The local dealer I trade with got so fed up with both these outfits that he now uses the Post Office to ship hand guns. Said he has had no problems at all!

George Anderson · 10-03-2004, 07:59 AM

I once attempted to ship a pistol via Fed Ex at a Mail Boxes Etc store. They gave me the same crap Thor got. I went home, called the toll free Fed Ex phone number and had them pick it up. Ever since then I do the same but now by internet which yields a discount.

You must deal with Fed Ex directly and not some paranoid franchisee. You can also ship US Mail as long as your postmaster isn't a dickhead.

Lugerdoc · 10-03-2004, 08:14 AM

Ted, As mentioned above, set up an account with Fed Ex and they will pick up at your door at no extra charge is regular. I used to call them for a pickup until I found that they charged me for that, so I went to a weekly schedule (every Monday, you don't have to have them stop every day) schedule at no additional charge, and they know that I'm a dealer, and haven't yet asked me about the receipiant's status. Also, you don't have to wait in line. TH

Edward Tinker · 10-03-2004, 12:00 PM

Both these guys are right, when I was living in Palouse, WA the last couple of years, I'd call and they'd come right to the house.

I would write what the item was on-line, insurance value and no problems!!

Ed

Herb · 10-03-2004, 12:05 PM

I have recieved and shipped firearms by UPS several times and have had no problem. NEVER state that the contents is a firearm, nor mark it as such, lots of interesting things get ripped off that way. If asked a good reply would be Machined parts. Unless I am behind the times shipping a complete firearm through the post office is illegal.

Edward Tinker · 10-03-2004, 12:11 PM

You can ship rifles and shotguns through the post office, and I believe pistols if in state, and it is legal for an FFL 01 to ship to another FFL 01 via the post office.

Ed

George Anderson · 10-03-2004, 01:26 PM

My post mistress, who is a very comely young woman, told me that as long as she had a copy of my license on file (as a collector) and I offered her a photo copy of the recipient's license she would accept handgun shipments.

Always ship registered mail.

John Sabato · 10-04-2004, 09:37 AM

Hey guys, I ship personal FEDEX packages all the time rather than use the postoffice... My company ships about 4000 packages a day nationwide with FEDEX and they get an amazingly deep discount. This discount is passed on to employees for personal packages as a perk... you just have to reimburse the company for the charge to their account.

I deal directly at a FEDEX location that is very busy right next to Dulles International Airport... Since we have an account, we always have our airbills attached to the fedex boxes when we arrive. They are so busy, that if they see you standing in line with a completed airbill on the package, they always ask if it is just a "dropoff"... and of course the answer is always yes. They just take it and set it on the conveyor belt behind them and take their copy of the airbill... the corporation is billed by mail. No fuss, no questions.

It doesn't cost anything to get your own FEDEX account... when you do they will even give you a supply of airbills and shipping containers, or you can even save money by doing the shipping information online...and printing out your airbill.

Check the appropriate boxes on the airbill, especially the "NO" where it asks if it is dangerous goods... and put down the insurance amount...

In some areas, when you have an account, you can even drop most standard FEDEX shipping boxes into a FEDEX drop box... no questions there...

good luck you'all...

Barry Briscoe · 10-10-2004, 08:51 AM

It is federal law to declare that your package contains a firearm,abbreviate anything to tip off that the shipment is a firearm to theives. ie Tom's Gun Shop = T.G.S on the shipping label or address entry.

The same goes for the item description when being insured.Winchester Model 70=WinM70.Take pictures of your item before you seal up the box in case you have to collect insurance and the shipper claims the item wasn't packed properly.Always have a return address inside your box and a "File Copy Only" of the FFL being shipped to or your FFL if returning a repaired or customized firearm in case the box is damaged,label lost,or UPS decides to inspect the package in transit.

There is a lawyer on another forum that is sueing UPS as they opened a rare firearm that was being shipped to him and they lost some of the parts which makes the gun useless and the parts are unavailable. It cost over $10,000.

=================================================
Shipping Legalities
Federal Law requires that all modern firearms be shipped only to a holder of a valid Federal Firearms License (FFL). The recipient must be have an FFL; however the sender is not required to have one. Any person who is legally allowed to own a firearm is legally allowed to ship it to an FFL holder for any legal purpose (including sale or resale).
Here is exactly what the ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says:
(B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier?
A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

Edward Tinker · 10-10-2004, 12:11 PM

Good point Barry, that is one reason I started to do my shipping on-line, I could declare everything up-front, but on-line without revealing anything obvious on the box, they came to the house and I got a slight discount for being a "business" i.e. having an account set up with them...

10-01-2004, 05:47 PM	#1
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	First UPS and now FEDEX <img border="0" alt="[soapbox]" title="" src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" /> Wow, these guys will put us out of business. I think there is a plot to shut down the small business firearm dealer/gunsmiths in this country. We used UPS pretty exclusively to ship firearms to people that sent them to us to restore. They got exceedingly difficult to deal with over the 2 years we used them. We finally gave up and started using FEDEX. They used to greet us with a smile and be so cordial and shipped firearms fine. Today Natalie was shipping a Luger and they said "sorry we can only ship dealer to dealer" In this case, it was dealer to dealer and luckily I had put a copy of my dealers license in the box and even after the had opened the box, then there was another 15 minutes wait while the FEDEX folks went in the back and had a conference before they would return and proceed to ship it. The lines got longer and more people had to wait longer. Another customer behind her was quizzed in depth about a piece of a cabinet he was shipping, "what the hey"? I wish there was a company that didnt ship anything but firearms. We looked their policy up again (CLICK here for FEDEX firearms policy) and it doesnt say dealer to dealer only! I hate to have to have an arguementative discussion with them everytime I ship a gun back! What a mess! (Rant mode off) __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

10-01-2004, 06:39 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Write a letter to the district manager, state that the employees were wrong in what they stated, that their rules state they can be shipped and you do not understand. Written documentation to them brings amazing results. Ensure it gets to the right person, and cc that office you had problems with and the regional and national offices. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-01-2004, 06:56 PM	#3
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,763 Thanks: 4,865 Thanked 3,105 Times in 1,429 Posts	Good advice Ed! Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

10-01-2004, 09:48 PM	#7
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Yep, you are right! In this case, it was both dealers but here is what FEDEXs site says: You agree to tender shipments of firearms to us only when either the shipper or recipient is a licensed manufacturer, licensed importer, licensed dealer or licensed collector and is not prohibited from making such shipments by federal, state or local regulations __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

10-03-2004, 04:11 AM	#8
pipeman45 User Join Date: May 2004 Location: Kentucky Posts: 539 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	The local dealer I trade with got so fed up with both these outfits that he now uses the Post Office to ship hand guns. Said he has had no problems at all! __________________ Dave

10-01-2004, 07:54 PM	#4
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Be certain to get and mention the names of the FEDEX cretins with whom you were dealing...should result in some instant refresher training for the counter monkeys. Few things p*$$ me off more than some crankshaft who decides he is going to do ad hoc policy making. When I encounter such, if, after reasonable discussions I am unsuccessful, I go after the foron/moonbat. I am not very nice when abused by some clerk who has arbitrarily decided to say no. Tom A.

10-01-2004, 08:32 PM	#5
Lloyd in Nevada User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Tom, Right ON! and AMEN!

10-01-2004, 09:43 PM	#6
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Be a little cautious on 'dealer' to 'dealer' too. A C&R license is not a dealers license. I had trouble with a UPS counter person too until I displayed C&R licenses for both me and the receiver. If the counter guy knew the difference between the two licenses he might have been able to stop me. I am also iritated that some stranger has to seal up my shipping box. Big Norm

10-03-2004, 07:59 AM	#9
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	I once attempted to ship a pistol via Fed Ex at a Mail Boxes Etc store. They gave me the same crap Thor got. I went home, called the toll free Fed Ex phone number and had them pick it up. Ever since then I do the same but now by internet which yields a discount. You must deal with Fed Ex directly and not some paranoid franchisee. You can also ship US Mail as long as your postmaster isn't a dickhead.

10-03-2004, 08:14 AM	#10
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 736 Times in 483 Posts	Ted, As mentioned above, set up an account with Fed Ex and they will pick up at your door at no extra charge is regular. I used to call them for a pickup until I found that they charged me for that, so I went to a weekly schedule (every Monday, you don't have to have them stop every day) schedule at no additional charge, and they know that I'm a dealer, and haven't yet asked me about the receipiant's status. Also, you don't have to wait in line. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-03-2004, 12:00 PM	#11
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Both these guys are right, when I was living in Palouse, WA the last couple of years, I'd call and they'd come right to the house. I would write what the item was on-line, insurance value and no problems!! Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-03-2004, 12:05 PM	#12
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I have recieved and shipped firearms by UPS several times and have had no problem. NEVER state that the contents is a firearm, nor mark it as such, lots of interesting things get ripped off that way. If asked a good reply would be Machined parts. Unless I am behind the times shipping a complete firearm through the post office is illegal. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

10-03-2004, 12:11 PM	#13
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	You can ship rifles and shotguns through the post office, and I believe pistols if in state, and it is legal for an FFL 01 to ship to another FFL 01 via the post office. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-03-2004, 01:26 PM	#14
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,527 Times in 786 Posts	My post mistress, who is a very comely young woman, told me that as long as she had a copy of my license on file (as a collector) and I offered her a photo copy of the recipient's license she would accept handgun shipments. Always ship registered mail.

10-04-2004, 09:37 AM	#15
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Hey guys, I ship personal FEDEX packages all the time rather than use the postoffice... My company ships about 4000 packages a day nationwide with FEDEX and they get an amazingly deep discount. This discount is passed on to employees for personal packages as a perk... you just have to reimburse the company for the charge to their account. I deal directly at a FEDEX location that is very busy right next to Dulles International Airport... Since we have an account, we always have our airbills attached to the fedex boxes when we arrive. They are so busy, that if they see you standing in line with a completed airbill on the package, they always ask if it is just a "dropoff"... and of course the answer is always yes. They just take it and set it on the conveyor belt behind them and take their copy of the airbill... the corporation is billed by mail. No fuss, no questions. It doesn't cost anything to get your own FEDEX account... when you do they will even give you a supply of airbills and shipping containers, or you can even save money by doing the shipping information online...and printing out your airbill. Check the appropriate boxes on the airbill, especially the "NO" where it asks if it is dangerous goods... and put down the insurance amount... In some areas, when you have an account, you can even drop most standard FEDEX shipping boxes into a FEDEX drop box... no questions there... good luck you'all... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-10-2004, 08:51 AM	#16
Barry Briscoe User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 29 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	It is federal law to declare that your package contains a firearm,abbreviate anything to tip off that the shipment is a firearm to theives. ie Tom's Gun Shop = T.G.S on the shipping label or address entry. The same goes for the item description when being insured.Winchester Model 70=WinM70.Take pictures of your item before you seal up the box in case you have to collect insurance and the shipper claims the item wasn't packed properly.Always have a return address inside your box and a "File Copy Only" of the FFL being shipped to or your FFL if returning a repaired or customized firearm in case the box is damaged,label lost,or UPS decides to inspect the package in transit. There is a lawyer on another forum that is sueing UPS as they opened a rare firearm that was being shipped to him and they lost some of the parts which makes the gun useless and the parts are unavailable. It cost over $10,000. ================================================= Shipping Legalities Federal Law requires that all modern firearms be shipped only to a holder of a valid Federal Firearms License (FFL). The recipient must be have an FFL; however the sender is not required to have one. Any person who is legally allowed to own a firearm is legally allowed to ship it to an FFL holder for any legal purpose (including sale or resale). Here is exactly what the ATF 'Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide' (ATF P 5300.4) says: (B9) May a nonlicensee ship a firearm by carrier? A nonlicensee may ship a firearm by carrier to a resident of his or her own state or to a licensee in any state. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm. [18 U. S. C. 922( a)( 2)( A) and 922( e), 27 CFR 178.31]

10-10-2004, 12:11 PM	#17
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,915 Thanks: 1,989 Thanked 4,506 Times in 2,080 Posts	Good point Barry, that is one reason I started to do my shipping on-line, I could declare everything up-front, but on-line without revealing anything obvious on the box, they came to the house and I got a slight discount for being a "business" i.e. having an account set up with them... __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV