Need some research help folks <IMG SRC="/luger/graphics/smile.gif" BORDER=0 ALT=":)">

Robert Wiggins · 05-08-2001, 07:23 PM

I have a question re my Mauser byf that I need some help with folks. It is regarding the trigger sideplate which by the way is matching serial with the P.08.

I would like to know if anyone can give me some background on the proof marks on the inside of the plate, so here is the data for research. I am unable to effectively photograph the part so pardon my cryptic description.

1) Number inside sideplate is "o2" and the o is slightly smaller than the 2.

2) There is also some stylized character I haven't found the meaning of yet. It is hard to explain, but I'll take a shot at it. It is a stamp which is either poorly applied or as intended and looks like a crescent moon concave on the right and convex on the left. just above the crescent and slightly left is a character resembling an upside down teardrop but angled like this "\". just below the crescent and slightly to the right is a regular shaped teardrop angled the same as the other. Confusing!

bill m · 05-08-2001, 08:41 PM

Hi,

I have no idea what the marking you speak of are. Are you familiar with the "Inside Sideplate Number"? On your byf 41, if the serial number was 4882, the number inside the side plate would be one digit higher than the first two digits of the serial number, which in this case would be 49. This is how you can check to see if you have the correct side plate for your gun. Perhaps you're already familiar with this, so I won't continue, but the 1937 and 1938 are slightly different, as they are usually the same first two digits as the serial number, in this case it would be 48. During most of 1938 production and until the end of the byf 42's it was one digit higher.

Ted · 05-08-2001, 08:49 PM

I must say, this information Bill is simply amazing, I for one, had NO idea this was the case! Ted

Johnny Peppers · 05-08-2001, 08:57 PM

Bill,

I have a friend that has a beautiful all matching (apparently) Mauser Banner that I would challenge anyone to identify the sideplate as being mismatched except for the serial number used as a sequence number inside the sideplate. I have just always made it a habit of checking this number, and when I found that his was a mismatch (not even close) even though the number on the outside matched I didn't have the heart to tell him the pistol was mismatched.

bill m · 05-08-2001, 09:33 PM

Hi JP,

Sometimes there are exceptions, but for the most part, it is a very good tool to use. I've seen police Banners with no numbers inside and only an X, or a //. I felt that the sideplate was correct for that gun, but most of the time it does correspond to the serial number.

tony k · 05-09-2001, 12:42 AM

Bill,

My byf 41 is SN 960a; the inside of the side plate is marked 10! So I guess that rather than simply adding one to the first two digits, it's one higher than the "thousands" number -- sort of a "lot" or "group" number.

Thanks for the info -- boy, ya learn something every day here!

Robert Wiggins · 05-09-2001, 01:09 PM

Bill;

Thanks for illucidating on the marking process. It is new to me. How or where did you discover this. Since you made no comment on the other mark I tried to describe, it is possible that there is further information to discover. If you were to attempt to connect the half moon and the tear drops you might see something you would recognize. I will try to draw something and post it for discussion.

Since the serial# on my byf is 6168, by applying your concept the inside trigger sideplate should show "62" not "o2" as I have indicated. I do believe that it is really "62" and that the "6" is badly stamped explaining why the "o" is smaller than the "2". I suspect the top of the "6" is missing and upon checking I notice that there is a small piece of the top of the six still there at the most right edge of the curl.

Regards to all and thanks for contributing

Robert Wiggins · 05-09-2001, 01:43 PM

Bill & others;

I hope this post works. I have tried to apply a little colour to the inside stamps with a pin but it is a little messy since the stamps are so small. Hope you can see the details well enough to make out the left most mark that is in question. It looks like three parts with the middle connecting part missing.

Any ideas what it is? You may have to increase image size for better detail.

Regards;

http://www3.sympatico.ca/robertwiggi..._sideplate.JPG

bill m · 05-09-2001, 02:09 PM

Hi Robert,

Sorry, but I just can not make it out clearly enough to have any idea what it is. It appears from the picture that the "trigger lever" is blue, instead of gray, which would indicate that this part has been refinished. If the part has been refinished, or the whole gun, or if it is an import, the marks you're referring to could be just about anything, made by just about anyone.

Robert Wiggins · 05-09-2001, 06:35 PM

Bill;

The blue you are seeing is reflection from the ink I used to fill in the puch marks. I used a scanner for the image so it tends to pick up reflection. It is not refinished and is fully original. If you capture the image and use a graphics program to zoom in on it, you will be able to see the stamp of qauestion a little more clearly, but it is not a perfect image to work with. As you can appreciate it doesn't lay flat on the scanner bed.

Regards;

05-08-2001, 07:23 PM	#1
Robert Wiggins User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 142 Thanks: 16 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Need some research help folks I have a question re my Mauser byf that I need some help with folks. It is regarding the trigger sideplate which by the way is matching serial with the P.08. I would like to know if anyone can give me some background on the proof marks on the inside of the plate, so here is the data for research. I am unable to effectively photograph the part so pardon my cryptic description. 1) Number inside sideplate is "o2" and the o is slightly smaller than the 2. 2) There is also some stylized character I haven't found the meaning of yet. It is hard to explain, but I'll take a shot at it. It is a stamp which is either poorly applied or as intended and looks like a crescent moon concave on the right and convex on the left. just above the crescent and slightly left is a character resembling an upside down teardrop but angled like this "\". just below the crescent and slightly to the right is a regular shaped teardrop angled the same as the other. Confusing!

05-08-2001, 08:41 PM	#2
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Need some research help folks Hi, I have no idea what the marking you speak of are. Are you familiar with the "Inside Sideplate Number"? On your byf 41, if the serial number was 4882, the number inside the side plate would be one digit higher than the first two digits of the serial number, which in this case would be 49. This is how you can check to see if you have the correct side plate for your gun. Perhaps you're already familiar with this, so I won't continue, but the 1937 and 1938 are slightly different, as they are usually the same first two digits as the serial number, in this case it would be 48. During most of 1938 production and until the end of the byf 42's it was one digit higher.

05-08-2001, 08:49 PM	#3
Ted User Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: SC Posts: 726 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Need some research help folks I must say, this information Bill is simply amazing, I for one, had NO idea this was the case! Ted

05-08-2001, 08:57 PM	#4
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Need some research help folks Bill, I have a friend that has a beautiful all matching (apparently) Mauser Banner that I would challenge anyone to identify the sideplate as being mismatched except for the serial number used as a sequence number inside the sideplate. I have just always made it a habit of checking this number, and when I found that his was a mismatch (not even close) even though the number on the outside matched I didn't have the heart to tell him the pistol was mismatched.

05-08-2001, 09:33 PM	#5
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Need some research help folks Hi JP, Sometimes there are exceptions, but for the most part, it is a very good tool to use. I've seen police Banners with no numbers inside and only an X, or a //. I felt that the sideplate was correct for that gun, but most of the time it does correspond to the serial number.

05-09-2001, 12:42 AM	#6
tony k User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 53 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Works for three-digit guns, too! Bill, My byf 41 is SN 960a; the inside of the side plate is marked 10! So I guess that rather than simply adding one to the first two digits, it's one higher than the "thousands" number -- sort of a "lot" or "group" number. Thanks for the info -- boy, ya learn something every day here!

05-09-2001, 01:09 PM	#7
Robert Wiggins User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 142 Thanks: 16 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks Bill Bill; Thanks for illucidating on the marking process. It is new to me. How or where did you discover this. Since you made no comment on the other mark I tried to describe, it is possible that there is further information to discover. If you were to attempt to connect the half moon and the tear drops you might see something you would recognize. I will try to draw something and post it for discussion. Since the serial# on my byf is 6168, by applying your concept the inside trigger sideplate should show "62" not "o2" as I have indicated. I do believe that it is really "62" and that the "6" is badly stamped explaining why the "o" is smaller than the "2". I suspect the top of the "6" is missing and upon checking I notice that there is a small piece of the top of the six still there at the most right edge of the curl. Regards to all and thanks for contributing

05-09-2001, 01:43 PM	#8
Robert Wiggins User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 142 Thanks: 16 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Picture of inside sideplate Bill & others; I hope this post works. I have tried to apply a little colour to the inside stamps with a pin but it is a little messy since the stamps are so small. Hope you can see the details well enough to make out the left most mark that is in question. It looks like three parts with the middle connecting part missing. Any ideas what it is? You may have to increase image size for better detail. Regards; http://www3.sympatico.ca/robertwiggi..._sideplate.JPG

05-09-2001, 02:09 PM	#9
bill m User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 385 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Picture of inside sideplate Hi Robert, Sorry, but I just can not make it out clearly enough to have any idea what it is. It appears from the picture that the "trigger lever" is blue, instead of gray, which would indicate that this part has been refinished. If the part has been refinished, or the whole gun, or if it is an import, the marks you're referring to could be just about anything, made by just about anyone.

05-09-2001, 06:35 PM	#10
Robert Wiggins User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 142 Thanks: 16 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Picture of inside sideplate Bill; The blue you are seeing is reflection from the ink I used to fill in the puch marks. I used a scanner for the image so it tends to pick up reflection. It is not refinished and is fully original. If you capture the image and use a graphics program to zoom in on it, you will be able to see the stamp of qauestion a little more clearly, but it is not a perfect image to work with. As you can appreciate it doesn't lay flat on the scanner bed. Regards;