A M1900 Bulgarian - Page 2

Ron Wood · 07-24-2004, 01:05 AM

Why replace them? There isn't anything wrong with them as they are. They fit the gun's overall condition and I do not think replacement would add significantly to the value of the piece. It isn't pristine, probably 70%-75% with surface rust discoloration but no pitting. It is difficult to tell from the photos, perhaps the strawed parts were over cleaned but to me that does not justify refinish or replacement. They are an honest part of a really scarce Luger that has survived approximately more than 99% of the original contract. At 95% condition it would be easily worth $9000. In its current un-messed with condition I still think it should be valued between $7000-$8000. These things don't grow on trees. It is correct, original and one of a vanishing number of truly rare "unimproved" collector items. Let it alone and enjoy it for what it is. End of soapbox. <img border="0" alt="[soapbox]" title="" src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" />

Apostolos · 07-24-2004, 06:33 AM

Many thanks to Hugh,Pete,Ron,Gerald,John,Albert,George and Dwight for all this interest and help.I will take some medicin to erase my cosmetic-mania.Pete,there are no markings on both sides of the extractor.

G.T. · 07-24-2004, 09:19 AM

I agree Ron! It was more of a "what if" question rather then a "let's do" idea!

I also think it is fine as it is... and also, obviously rare! Very cool gun Apostolos! best to all, til...lat'r...GT

Pete Ebbink · 07-24-2004, 12:03 PM

Hey Ron,

You spoiled my trick question...

The old style extractor was just that...an extractor only.

The new style extractor had a dual pupose...extracting and also indicating a loaded chamber....thus, the need to have markings on one or two sides (as the Dutch) in various languages indicating "loaded"...

Regards,

Pete.. <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

Ron Wood · 07-24-2004, 05:31 PM

Sorry Pete. I should have realized...I am a bit thick at times (like 24/7!).

Edward Tinker · 07-24-2004, 07:41 PM

I don't know about "spoiled", Ron answered the trick correctly. First Prize for Ron

Apostolos · 09-02-2004, 03:27 PM

Does anyone knows about the color finish of the metallic body of a correct magazin,the type of the bottom and if there must be some marks anywhere on the mag,as the mag.of the pistol is incorrect.

Imperial Arms · 09-02-2004, 03:51 PM

Hello Apostolos,

The body of the magazine should be plain metal and the wood bottom has no markings. Try to find an original 1900/02 Commercial magazine to replace your incorrect magazine.

Cheers,
Albert

Apostolos · 09-02-2004, 05:17 PM

Hello Albert,as my English are not very good,what do you mean by plain metal? I suspect in the white or by something plated (nickel or chromium).

Apostolos · 09-02-2004, 05:21 PM

Albert,in addition to my previous message,do you have any image of such a magazine? Please check your personal mails.

ken d · 09-02-2004, 08:45 PM

A great find and discussion. I totally agree, do nothing but keep it wiped down. Finding a rare Luger like this is what makes collecting rewarding beyond monetary gain.

Regards

Ken D

Apostolos · 09-02-2004, 10:02 PM

I feel very complicated when I am trying to learn about how many of these pistols were made or how many of them reached in Bulgaria.I have read that only 1000 of them manufactured but only 200 reached the country.Does anyone knows the truth and how many of them are reporting in the world or in the USA at least?

Imperial Arms · 09-03-2004, 02:46 AM

Hello Apostolos,

Based on total number of Bulgarian Lugers which were made from 1900-1908, it is now estimated that only 100 M1900 pistols were made, and not 1,000 pistols as reported in the book 'Lugers at Random'. Actually, it was Charles Kenyon who mentioned to me two years ago the revised number according to some DWM records which he found. Of the 100 M1900 Bulgarian pistols which were delivered, I have recorded about 7-9 pistols which have survived, but only a few remain in original factory condition.

I hope that this information is helpful to you.

Cheers,
Albert

07-24-2004, 01:05 AM	#21
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Why replace them? There isn't anything wrong with them as they are. They fit the gun's overall condition and I do not think replacement would add significantly to the value of the piece. It isn't pristine, probably 70%-75% with surface rust discoloration but no pitting. It is difficult to tell from the photos, perhaps the strawed parts were over cleaned but to me that does not justify refinish or replacement. They are an honest part of a really scarce Luger that has survived approximately more than 99% of the original contract. At 95% condition it would be easily worth $9000. In its current un-messed with condition I still think it should be valued between $7000-$8000. These things don't grow on trees. It is correct, original and one of a vanishing number of truly rare "unimproved" collector items. Let it alone and enjoy it for what it is. End of soapbox. <img border="0" alt="[soapbox]" title="" src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" /> __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-24-2004, 06:33 AM	#22
Apostolos User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Thessaloniki- Greece Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Many thanks to Hugh,Pete,Ron,Gerald,John,Albert,George and Dwight for all this interest and help.I will take some medicin to erase my cosmetic-mania.Pete,there are no markings on both sides of the extractor. __________________ I only know one thing,that I know nothing.SOCRATES.

07-24-2004, 05:31 PM	#25
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Sorry Pete. I should have realized...I am a bit thick at times (like 24/7!). __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

07-24-2004, 07:41 PM	#26
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	I don't know about "spoiled", Ron answered the trick correctly. First Prize for Ron __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

09-02-2004, 03:27 PM	#27
Apostolos User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Thessaloniki- Greece Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Does anyone knows about the color finish of the metallic body of a correct magazin,the type of the bottom and if there must be some marks anywhere on the mag,as the mag.of the pistol is incorrect. __________________ I only know one thing,that I know nothing.SOCRATES.

07-24-2004, 09:19 AM	#23
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,528 Thanks: 1,334 Thanked 3,711 Times in 1,014 Posts	I agree Ron! It was more of a "what if" question rather then a "let's do" idea! I also think it is fine as it is... and also, obviously rare! Very cool gun Apostolos! best to all, til...lat'r...GT

07-24-2004, 12:03 PM	#24
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hey Ron, You spoiled my trick question... The old style extractor was just that...an extractor only. The new style extractor had a dual pupose...extracting and also indicating a loaded chamber....thus, the need to have markings on one or two sides (as the Dutch) in various languages indicating "loaded"... Regards, Pete.. <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

09-02-2004, 03:51 PM	#28
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Hello Apostolos, The body of the magazine should be plain metal and the wood bottom has no markings. Try to find an original 1900/02 Commercial magazine to replace your incorrect magazine. Cheers, Albert

09-02-2004, 05:17 PM	#29
Apostolos User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Thessaloniki- Greece Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello Albert,as my English are not very good,what do you mean by plain metal? I suspect in the white or by something plated (nickel or chromium). __________________ I only know one thing,that I know nothing.SOCRATES.

09-02-2004, 05:21 PM	#30
Apostolos User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Thessaloniki- Greece Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Albert,in addition to my previous message,do you have any image of such a magazine? Please check your personal mails. __________________ I only know one thing,that I know nothing.SOCRATES.

09-02-2004, 08:45 PM	#31
ken d Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: louisville ky Posts: 277 Thanks: 31 Thanked 9 Times in 8 Posts	A great find and discussion. I totally agree, do nothing but keep it wiped down. Finding a rare Luger like this is what makes collecting rewarding beyond monetary gain. Regards Ken D

09-02-2004, 10:02 PM	#32
Apostolos User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Thessaloniki- Greece Posts: 16 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I feel very complicated when I am trying to learn about how many of these pistols were made or how many of them reached in Bulgaria.I have read that only 1000 of them manufactured but only 200 reached the country.Does anyone knows the truth and how many of them are reporting in the world or in the USA at least? __________________ I only know one thing,that I know nothing.SOCRATES.

09-03-2004, 02:46 AM	#33
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Hello Apostolos, Based on total number of Bulgarian Lugers which were made from 1900-1908, it is now estimated that only 100 M1900 pistols were made, and not 1,000 pistols as reported in the book 'Lugers at Random'. Actually, it was Charles Kenyon who mentioned to me two years ago the revised number according to some DWM records which he found. Of the 100 M1900 Bulgarian pistols which were delivered, I have recorded about 7-9 pistols which have survived, but only a few remain in original factory condition. I hope that this information is helpful to you. Cheers, Albert