mulling it over. Thoughts?

trigger643 · 07-18-2003, 02:13 PM

I have a 1938 S/42 all matching with 2 original matching # mags.

Here's the poop. It's about 50% to 60% original finish, showing heavy holster wear to the side plate, frame, barrel. Bore is lightly frosted. The grips are matching number and there is a chip underneath the safety. I have the piece that was chipped.

No pitting or rust. Just long years of holster wear, which has turned patina.

Refinish or no?

Edward Tinker · 07-18-2003, 03:11 PM

Depends, if it is a shooter that you enjoy, why not?

It also depends on what YOU call 50% to 60%. That is pretty bare metal IMHO. And matching mags and grips, I would be inclined to leave her alone.

It is hard to say, as there is history there, but the final choice is up to you.

Ed

Greg · 07-18-2003, 03:16 PM

I agree with Ed. If it's a shooter, then restore it to like new condition and increase it's longevity (here's where I plug Ted's Luger Strawing Service).

Greg

trigger643 · 07-18-2003, 04:00 PM

pictures are worth a thousand words...

Thor · 07-18-2003, 04:00 PM

Here is one I did in the old type finish but still very nice. Yes, this variation shoots the blue pencils! This gun sold over $1000 on gunbroker last year.
<a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/1938C.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/1938C.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

CLICK HERE for full size Picture-1938 S/42

trigger643 · 07-18-2003, 04:02 PM

Navy · 07-19-2003, 10:46 AM

Trigger,
It would be a crime to mess with that gun.
Tom A.

Dwight Gruber · 07-19-2003, 02:30 PM

Tom (and Trigger)

I agree, thats really a pretty nice piece.

This brings up a topic, a question, which has been in the back of my mind for a while, and which I am sure everyone has wondered about. That is, how does one determine a realistic "percent grade"?

Trigger643 has presented us with a series of good pictures (well, a couple of them need to be fixed so they appear) of his 1938 S/42, which he has assessed at 50%-60% finish. Judging by those photos, what do others of you think the %finish is on this gun, and what brings you to that determination?

I don't have an opinion here (other than I think it is better than stated); I'm really curious about the answers.

--Dwight

Greg · 07-19-2003, 05:16 PM

Dwight,

In my unscientific method of reckoning, based on the pixs, I would say the finish was +85% overall.

Greg

Edward Tinker · 07-19-2003, 06:51 PM

Dwight, I brought this up last year (meaning I find it interesting also,

) and trying to determine bluing is hard. I would rather under judge than over judge. People pointed me in the direction of the Blue Books of Gun Values, since they show (mostly SSA's) with % of bluing.

BTW, I tried to get the pictures to show, but two I don't know the proper name to reveal them.

Ed

trigger643 · 07-20-2003, 08:10 AM

Yes, this is a glitch in the coding, here is my attempt to fix it:

<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Dsc00087.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Dsc00087.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a>

Ed

Thor · 07-20-2003, 10:46 AM

Trigger643, I found that when I go into a post that had pictures that looked right, then I edit the post, it scrambles up the coding, which is what happened I believe to your last post. it can be edited but I only know how to edit my own posts. Your coding seems like some I have not used yet.

trigger643 · 07-20-2003, 01:47 PM

I had just found the correct names for the pictures and tried to correct those in the previous 2 dead Pics...

Any, the last picture compares the "finish" to my byf. For contrast, you can see this 1938 has about 85% "finish" remaining, however, about 50% of the pistol has no blue, thining blue, or blue that has turned brown.

Edward Tinker · 07-20-2003, 02:13 PM

I think it comes down to this; many of us love the brand new finish and look that Thor can give a gun, but we also like the rugged truthfulness of a used but not abused gun.

OT, but this is what happens when you do a picture:

If you put the URL, which "holds" the picture betwen the following groups of words NO SPACES, then the picture does the following:

[img] URL [/img] This makes the picture show up here on the screen

[thumb] URL [/thumb] This makes a larger picture show up on the screen but makes it look smaller

NO [IMG] and the URL is a link and you click on it to show the picture on another browser screen.

You can manually type in the img words with brackets, and the url or you can go to the Post Reply area and post it there.

I think many people make posting a picture more difficult in their own mind than it is. Using your background, such as, if you were an engineer, think of it as steps to fix. #1 place photo at John's server, then show where photo is, then display it for others, etc.

I can make a very detailed and confusing diagram if anyone is interested.

Ed

Herb · 07-21-2003, 01:53 PM

Good pics, I think it may be somewhere around 50-60% overall but like Ed I tend to be conservative so as not to be misleading. I have mixed feelings about having it refinished, one side of my brain says do it while the other side says don't touch it. Value wise I guess the end result would be about the same. Even at 50% bluing it rates an NRA grade of 'fine' which is pretty good for one that age while refinishing it will reduce the grading to 'good' the resale value would probably be about the same in my opinion. If I had one each in front of me and was trying to decide which one to buy I probably would go with the refinished one.

Greg · 07-21-2003, 02:21 PM

Just saw the additional pixs, and concur with Herb, thus lowering my original guesstimate to around 60%.

Greg

saxman · 07-23-2003, 08:55 PM

I would value it higher as is. Like Ed said, there's history in that patina. Everyone wants a Thor Luger, but to me it would have to be really special to get that treatment. By that, I mean it would have to be probably a commercial, marked 'Germany', with no military marks, mismatched, less than 50% finish, ruined or plastic grips and maybe .30 cal. I actually know of one like that (except it's not mismatched), but I don't think the owner is going to spend anything on it. He has inherited some great guns over the last 10 years or so and is really kind of overwhelmed right now - they all need care and attention and he has no time. Examples; Model 1873 Winchester carbine, octagonal barrel, in .25-20, double guns, Mauser sporter, Remington Model 11, the list goes on. I guess since he's my stepson and the father of our grandchildren, I'll have to spend some time on his guns - that should be fun. Maybe one a week or something. Anyway, I think the Luger is beautiful as it is and shouldn't be restored.

John Sabato · 07-24-2003, 09:01 AM

That is all honest wear and the result of the history of a fine Luger... I wouldn't mess with it. Just do what is necessary to ensure that the deterioration of the finish is stopped.

It is a FINE lookin' Luger! If it were mine I would just cherish it...

saxman · 07-24-2003, 02:30 PM

I use nothing but 'Clenzoil' on my antique guns. It is safe for all finishes and wood, too. This cleaner/oil/preservative does evaporate over time, but never gets gummy. I make it a point to clean my old guns with it every year.

trigger643 · 07-27-2003, 01:07 AM

The weapon is well soked with Breakfree CLP over a nice Tetra gun grease massage. I'm thinking of putting it up for auction. 1938 s/42, not one but TWO ORIGINAL matching mags, probably german rebarrel (unsure), Carl Barth 1938 dated holster, Loading tool WaA63 (correct)... perfect rig. Holster is about 85% with no cracking, shoe polish or "restoration". If anyone is interested, you all have seen the "worst" pictures. It's as described in this thread. about 50 to 60%, no pits, rust, balance nil or turning brown... What's it worth?

07-18-2003, 03:11 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	Depends, if it is a shooter that you enjoy, why not? It also depends on what YOU call 50% to 60%. That is pretty bare metal IMHO. And matching mags and grips, I would be inclined to leave her alone. It is hard to say, as there is history there, but the final choice is up to you. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-18-2003, 04:00 PM	#4
trigger643 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Murfreesboro Posts: 502 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	pictures are worth a thousand words... __________________ "There are three reasons to own a gun: To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face." Ã¢?? Krusty the Clown

07-18-2003, 04:00 PM	#5
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Here is one I did in the old type finish but still very nice. Yes, this variation shoots the blue pencils! This gun sold over $1000 on gunbroker last year. <a href="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/1938C.JPG" target="_fullview"><img src="http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/1938C.JPG" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> CLICK HERE for full size Picture-1938 S/42 __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

07-18-2003, 04:02 PM	#6
trigger643 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Murfreesboro Posts: 502 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	<a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Dsc00080.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Dsc00080.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Dsc00087.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Dsc00087.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Dsc00085.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Dsc00085.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Dsc00085.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Dsc00085.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Dsc00084.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Dsc00084.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Dsc00083.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Dsc00083.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Dsc00082.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Dsc00082.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Dsc00081.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Dsc00081.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> __________________ "There are three reasons to own a gun: To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face." Ã¢?? Krusty the Clown

07-19-2003, 06:51 PM	#10
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	Dwight, I brought this up last year (meaning I find it interesting also, ) and trying to determine bluing is hard. I would rather under judge than over judge. People pointed me in the direction of the Blue Books of Gun Values, since they show (mostly SSA's) with % of bluing. BTW, I tried to get the pictures to show, but two I don't know the proper name to reveal them. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-18-2003, 02:13 PM	#1
trigger643 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Murfreesboro Posts: 502 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	mulling it over. Thoughts? I have a 1938 S/42 all matching with 2 original matching # mags. Here's the poop. It's about 50% to 60% original finish, showing heavy holster wear to the side plate, frame, barrel. Bore is lightly frosted. The grips are matching number and there is a chip underneath the safety. I have the piece that was chipped. No pitting or rust. Just long years of holster wear, which has turned patina. Refinish or no? __________________ "There are three reasons to own a gun: To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face." Ã¢?? Krusty the Clown

07-18-2003, 03:16 PM	#3
Greg User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southern U.S. Posts: 181 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	I agree with Ed. If it's a shooter, then restore it to like new condition and increase it's longevity (here's where I plug Ted's Luger Strawing Service). Greg

07-19-2003, 10:46 AM	#7
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Trigger, It would be a crime to mess with that gun. Tom A.

07-19-2003, 02:30 PM	#8
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Tom (and Trigger) I agree, thats really a pretty nice piece. This brings up a topic, a question, which has been in the back of my mind for a while, and which I am sure everyone has wondered about. That is, how does one determine a realistic "percent grade"? Trigger643 has presented us with a series of good pictures (well, a couple of them need to be fixed so they appear) of his 1938 S/42, which he has assessed at 50%-60% finish. Judging by those photos, what do others of you think the %finish is on this gun, and what brings you to that determination? I don't have an opinion here (other than I think it is better than stated); I'm really curious about the answers. --Dwight

07-19-2003, 05:16 PM	#9
Greg User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southern U.S. Posts: 181 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Dwight, In my unscientific method of reckoning, based on the pixs, I would say the finish was +85% overall. Greg

07-20-2003, 08:10 AM	#11
trigger643 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Murfreesboro Posts: 502 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	Yes, this is a glitch in the coding, here is my attempt to fix it: <a href="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Dsc00087.jpg" target="_fullview"><img src="http://boards.rennlist.com/lfupload/Dsc00087.jpg" width="400" alt="Click for fullsize image" /></a> Ed __________________ "There are three reasons to own a gun: To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face." Ã¢?? Krusty the Clown

07-20-2003, 10:46 AM	#12
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Trigger643, I found that when I go into a post that had pictures that looked right, then I edit the post, it scrambles up the coding, which is what happened I believe to your last post. it can be edited but I only know how to edit my own posts. Your coding seems like some I have not used yet. __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

07-20-2003, 01:47 PM	#13
trigger643 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Murfreesboro Posts: 502 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	I had just found the correct names for the pictures and tried to correct those in the previous 2 dead Pics... Any, the last picture compares the "finish" to my byf. For contrast, you can see this 1938 has about 85% "finish" remaining, however, about 50% of the pistol has no blue, thining blue, or blue that has turned brown. __________________ "There are three reasons to own a gun: To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face." Ã¢?? Krusty the Clown

07-20-2003, 02:13 PM	#14
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,967 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,596 Times in 2,117 Posts	I think it comes down to this; many of us love the brand new finish and look that Thor can give a gun, but we also like the rugged truthfulness of a used but not abused gun. OT, but this is what happens when you do a picture: If you put the URL, which "holds" the picture betwen the following groups of words NO SPACES, then the picture does the following: [img] URL [/img] This makes the picture show up here on the screen [thumb] URL [/thumb] This makes a larger picture show up on the screen but makes it look smaller NO [IMG] and the URL is a link and you click on it to show the picture on another browser screen. You can manually type in the img words with brackets, and the url or you can go to the Post Reply area and post it there. I think many people make posting a picture more difficult in their own mind than it is. Using your background, such as, if you were an engineer, think of it as steps to fix. #1 place photo at John's server, then show where photo is, then display it for others, etc. I can make a very detailed and confusing diagram if anyone is interested. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

07-21-2003, 01:53 PM	#15
Herb User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Utah, in the land of the Sleeping Rainbow Posts: 1,457 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Good pics, I think it may be somewhere around 50-60% overall but like Ed I tend to be conservative so as not to be misleading. I have mixed feelings about having it refinished, one side of my brain says do it while the other side says don't touch it. Value wise I guess the end result would be about the same. Even at 50% bluing it rates an NRA grade of 'fine' which is pretty good for one that age while refinishing it will reduce the grading to 'good' the resale value would probably be about the same in my opinion. If I had one each in front of me and was trying to decide which one to buy I probably would go with the refinished one. __________________ Utah, where gun control means a steady trigger pull

07-21-2003, 02:21 PM	#16
Greg User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Southern U.S. Posts: 181 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Just saw the additional pixs, and concur with Herb, thus lowering my original guesstimate to around 60%. Greg

07-23-2003, 08:55 PM	#17
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I would value it higher as is. Like Ed said, there's history in that patina. Everyone wants a Thor Luger, but to me it would have to be really special to get that treatment. By that, I mean it would have to be probably a commercial, marked 'Germany', with no military marks, mismatched, less than 50% finish, ruined or plastic grips and maybe .30 cal. I actually know of one like that (except it's not mismatched), but I don't think the owner is going to spend anything on it. He has inherited some great guns over the last 10 years or so and is really kind of overwhelmed right now - they all need care and attention and he has no time. Examples; Model 1873 Winchester carbine, octagonal barrel, in .25-20, double guns, Mauser sporter, Remington Model 11, the list goes on. I guess since he's my stepson and the father of our grandchildren, I'll have to spend some time on his guns - that should be fun. Maybe one a week or something. Anyway, I think the Luger is beautiful as it is and shouldn't be restored. __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

07-24-2003, 09:01 AM	#18
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	That is all honest wear and the result of the history of a fine Luger... I wouldn't mess with it. Just do what is necessary to ensure that the deterioration of the finish is stopped. It is a FINE lookin' Luger! If it were mine I would just cherish it... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-24-2003, 02:30 PM	#19
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I use nothing but 'Clenzoil' on my antique guns. It is safe for all finishes and wood, too. This cleaner/oil/preservative does evaporate over time, but never gets gummy. I make it a point to clean my old guns with it every year. __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

07-27-2003, 01:07 AM	#20
trigger643 User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Murfreesboro Posts: 502 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	The weapon is well soked with Breakfree CLP over a nice Tetra gun grease massage. I'm thinking of putting it up for auction. 1938 s/42, not one but TWO ORIGINAL matching mags, probably german rebarrel (unsure), Carl Barth 1938 dated holster, Loading tool WaA63 (correct)... perfect rig. Holster is about 85% with no cracking, shoe polish or "restoration". If anyone is interested, you all have seen the "worst" pictures. It's as described in this thread. about 50 to 60%, no pits, rust, balance nil or turning brown... What's it worth? __________________ "There are three reasons to own a gun: To protect yourself and your family, to hunt dangerous and delicious animals, and to keep the King of England out of your face." Ã¢?? Krusty the Clown