Luger Artillery Barrel manufacturing question

John Sabato · 07-09-2003, 04:12 PM

I have always wondered if the barrels used on Artillery Lugers were machined from round pre-rifled barrel stock that was large enough to produce the rear sight mounting (dovetail) or if the raw barrels were actually forged into the rough shape before machining, drilling, rifling and chambering...

Any of the collectors of Artillery Lugers out there know the answer? I have my own suspicions about the answer, but I would like to solicit others opinions before I begin theorizing in print

George Anderson · 07-09-2003, 04:52 PM

Jim Oehlenschlager, owner of Mentor Arms, had a machine shop in Cleveland. I believe he told me that he made his LP08 barrels from .30 cal barrels. The above business has since shut down and Jim has gone into the witness protection program (a joke).

John Sabato · 07-09-2003, 05:07 PM

George,

He Probably went into the witness protection program just to get a shorter and easier to spell last name

Did he make (drill and re-rifle) 9mm barrels from those .30 caliber barrels?

Do you remember what he charged and what time period he made them?

George Anderson · 07-09-2003, 05:26 PM

JS, the one time I visited him, he had just finished a 9mm Luger carbine that he'd made from a 1923 commercial. The carbine price was $2500 and it was a fantastic and accurate copy of the post war carbine. He made a C96 Red Nine for me from a a model 1930 .30 cal broomhandle, it too was fantastic. As the red nine was select grade, it cost $600. This visit took place in 1998 or 1999.

John Sabato · 07-11-2003, 03:55 PM

anyone else know anything about my original question?

John Sabato · 07-13-2003, 11:48 AM

Just got an answer to my question from a fellow Luger enthusiast (Jan Balcar) in the Czech Republic who is a member of Jan Still's Axis pistol's forum...

here is what he reported:

<blockquote>quote:<hr />"Lugers barels (and Artillery probably too) were machined from round steel rod. At first the barrels were drilled, then machined outer sufaces, then rifled and at last the rifling was polished. Polishing was made with very interesting process: Steel rod 6 mm diameter pushed into the barrel, then was a part of barrel inner space filled with small volume molted lead. So become a casting the same measure like barrel about 1" lenght. Then lubricated with oil & emery and polished in special machine. Cartidge chamber was a last operation. I heard it from former Czech slavic workers they are in 1940Ã?Â´s "Totaleingesetzt" in Mauser factory."<hr /></blockquote>Hope you all found this of interest.

Dwight Gruber · 07-13-2003, 02:37 PM

John,

Reading the answer closely, I would say that your original question is still open.

--Dwight

ViggoG · 07-14-2003, 12:10 AM

John,
My first thought went to forging but after seeing "A Family Heirloom"(another post) it becomes obvious to me that I was in error and because I made too quick of a judgement I just deleted my error.
Because after due consideration, I would presume that the barrels were drilled and rough turned from round stock, before being stress relieved and returned to the shop for the final machining, etc.
ViggoG

John Sabato · 07-14-2003, 11:00 AM

Dwight, I agree that the story doesn't fully answer the question... but the fact that the story relates the recollection of workers at Mauser during WW2 regarding the manufacture of Luger barrels... I would say that the information is a nugget worth remembering...

I think it is increasingly seldom that we get much insight into the methods used by the craftsmen of the time when Lugers were manufactured... My recent inquiry to both Mauser and the Weapons Museum at Oberndorf resulted in a answer that there are no historical photographs of the manufacturing processes... and the only photographs that they still have of Mausers of the 1970's are marketing type photos...

07-09-2003, 04:12 PM	#1
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Luger Artillery Barrel manufacturing question I have always wondered if the barrels used on Artillery Lugers were machined from round pre-rifled barrel stock that was large enough to produce the rear sight mounting (dovetail) or if the raw barrels were actually forged into the rough shape before machining, drilling, rifling and chambering... Any of the collectors of Artillery Lugers out there know the answer? I have my own suspicions about the answer, but I would like to solicit others opinions before I begin theorizing in print __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-09-2003, 05:07 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	George, He Probably went into the witness protection program just to get a shorter and easier to spell last name Did he make (drill and re-rifle) 9mm barrels from those .30 caliber barrels? Do you remember what he charged and what time period he made them? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-11-2003, 03:55 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	anyone else know anything about my original question? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-13-2003, 11:48 AM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Just got an answer to my question from a fellow Luger enthusiast (Jan Balcar) in the Czech Republic who is a member of Jan Still's Axis pistol's forum... here is what he reported: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">"Lugers barels (and Artillery probably too) were machined from round steel rod. At first the barrels were drilled, then machined outer sufaces, then rifled and at last the rifling was polished. Polishing was made with very interesting process: Steel rod 6 mm diameter pushed into the barrel, then was a part of barrel inner space filled with small volume molted lead. So become a casting the same measure like barrel about 1" lenght. Then lubricated with oil & emery and polished in special machine. Cartidge chamber was a last operation. I heard it from former Czech slavic workers they are in 1940Ã?Â´s "Totaleingesetzt" in Mauser factory."</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">Hope you all found this of interest. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-14-2003, 11:00 AM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Dwight, I agree that the story doesn't fully answer the question... but the fact that the story relates the recollection of workers at Mauser during WW2 regarding the manufacture of Luger barrels... I would say that the information is a nugget worth remembering... I think it is increasingly seldom that we get much insight into the methods used by the craftsmen of the time when Lugers were manufactured... My recent inquiry to both Mauser and the Weapons Museum at Oberndorf resulted in a answer that there are no historical photographs of the manufacturing processes... and the only photographs that they still have of Mausers of the 1970's are marketing type photos... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

07-09-2003, 04:52 PM	#2
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	Jim Oehlenschlager, owner of Mentor Arms, had a machine shop in Cleveland. I believe he told me that he made his LP08 barrels from .30 cal barrels. The above business has since shut down and Jim has gone into the witness protection program (a joke).

07-09-2003, 05:26 PM	#4
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	JS, the one time I visited him, he had just finished a 9mm Luger carbine that he'd made from a 1923 commercial. The carbine price was $2500 and it was a fantastic and accurate copy of the post war carbine. He made a C96 Red Nine for me from a a model 1930 .30 cal broomhandle, it too was fantastic. As the red nine was select grade, it cost $600. This visit took place in 1998 or 1999.

07-13-2003, 02:37 PM	#7
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	John, Reading the answer closely, I would say that your original question is still open. --Dwight

07-14-2003, 12:10 AM	#8
ViggoG RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: South Side Virginia Posts: 534 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	John, My first thought went to forging but after seeing "A Family Heirloom"(another post) it becomes obvious to me that I was in error and because I made too quick of a judgement I just deleted my error. Because after due consideration, I would presume that the barrels were drilled and rough turned from round stock, before being stress relieved and returned to the shop for the final machining, etc. ViggoG