Why so many 1917 Artillery luger in N.Z, - Page 2

mauro · 06-03-2003, 04:43 PM

Thank you Norman for your explanation.
The traitor issue is very interesting. I will have a look at my book about this topic.
Ciao
Mauro

George Anderson · 06-04-2003, 10:37 PM

Up until 1915 England was not only our most traditional enemy but also our most persistent competitor in foreign trade. During the constitutional convention in Philadelphia a vote was actually required to decide on English over German as a language for the new republic. My wife's ancestor's graves in the Shenandoah Valley dated in the 18th and 19th centuries are all inscribed in German. It weren't just Pennsyltucky!

Sgt Art · 06-05-2003, 02:23 PM

English v. German is an Urban Legend, I'm afraid.
Here's what really happened:

Origins: Legend
has it that in 1795 a bill to establish German as the official language of the fledgling United States of America was defeated in Congress by a single vote. There never was such a vote; indeed, there wasn't any such bill, either. A proposal before Congress in 1795 merely recommended the printing of federal laws in German as well as English, and no bill was ever actually voted upon.

This most famous of language legends began when a group of German-Americans from Augusta, Virginia, petitioned Congress, and in response to their petition a House committee recommended publishing three thousand sets of laws in German and distributing them to the states (with copies of statutes printed in English as well). The House debated this proposal on 13 January 1795 without reaching a decision, and a vote to adjourn and consider the recommendation at a later date was defeated by one vote, 42 to 41. There was no vote on an actual bill, merely a vote on whether or not to adjourn. Because the motion to adjourn did not pass, the matter was dropped. It was from this roll call on adjournment that the "German missed becoming the official language of the USA by one vote" legend sprang.

The House debated translating federal statutes into German again on 16 February 1795, but the final result was the approval of a bill to publish existing and future federal statutes in English only. This bill was approved by the Senate as well and signed into law by President George Washington a month later. The legend lives on, though, presented a vivid lesson that the foundations of our world aren't always as solid as we think.

If you really want to find out about WWI (which I have) go to this site: http://pub65.ezboard.com/ftheworldatwar70879frm2

I think you'll enjoy it as it does dispell some of the myths surrounding WWI. I find history as an interesting extension to weapons collecting or vice versa.

John -Melb · 06-12-2003, 11:49 PM

BLOODY-WELL FOUND IT!!!!!!!!

I've asked a couple of times, on this and the previous message board about Australian issue of P08 Lugers (see above). Well I was poking around on the net this afternoon and found a reference of Australian "Z" Force units in the Pacific using Lugers!

It's “Activities of Alex Hawkins in Z special Unit 1944/45" at http://www.grantsmilitaria.com/garrett/html/z_spec.htm

I am stoked! I think this may explain the "Dad and Dave Industries" marking on my LP08!

Any thoughts folks.

06-03-2003, 04:43 PM	#21
mauro FIREARM HISTORIAN AND AUT Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Belgium Posts: 1,535 Thanks: 106 Thanked 350 Times in 129 Posts	Thank you Norman for your explanation. The traitor issue is very interesting. I will have a look at my book about this topic. Ciao Mauro __________________ Mauro Baudino - www.lugerlp08.com www.paul-mauser-archive.com Mauser Company and Firearm Historian - Mauser Parabellum Certification Service.

06-04-2003, 10:37 PM	#22
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	Up until 1915 England was not only our most traditional enemy but also our most persistent competitor in foreign trade. During the constitutional convention in Philadelphia a vote was actually required to decide on English over German as a language for the new republic. My wife's ancestor's graves in the Shenandoah Valley dated in the 18th and 19th centuries are all inscribed in German. It weren't just Pennsyltucky!

06-05-2003, 02:23 PM	#23
Sgt Art User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: SC Posts: 58 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	English v. German is an Urban Legend, I'm afraid. Here's what really happened: Origins: Legend has it that in 1795 a bill to establish German as the official language of the fledgling United States of America was defeated in Congress by a single vote. There never was such a vote; indeed, there wasn't any such bill, either. A proposal before Congress in 1795 merely recommended the printing of federal laws in German as well as English, and no bill was ever actually voted upon. This most famous of language legends began when a group of German-Americans from Augusta, Virginia, petitioned Congress, and in response to their petition a House committee recommended publishing three thousand sets of laws in German and distributing them to the states (with copies of statutes printed in English as well). The House debated this proposal on 13 January 1795 without reaching a decision, and a vote to adjourn and consider the recommendation at a later date was defeated by one vote, 42 to 41. There was no vote on an actual bill, merely a vote on whether or not to adjourn. Because the motion to adjourn did not pass, the matter was dropped. It was from this roll call on adjournment that the "German missed becoming the official language of the USA by one vote" legend sprang. The House debated translating federal statutes into German again on 16 February 1795, but the final result was the approval of a bill to publish existing and future federal statutes in English only. This bill was approved by the Senate as well and signed into law by President George Washington a month later. The legend lives on, though, presented a vivid lesson that the foundations of our world aren't always as solid as we think. If you really want to find out about WWI (which I have) go to this site: http://pub65.ezboard.com/ftheworldatwar70879frm2 I think you'll enjoy it as it does dispell some of the myths surrounding WWI. I find history as an interesting extension to weapons collecting or vice versa.

06-12-2003, 11:49 PM	#24
John -Melb User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melbourne, Peoples Republic of Australia! Posts: 145 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	BLOODY-WELL FOUND IT!!!!!!!! I've asked a couple of times, on this and the previous message board about Australian issue of P08 Lugers (see above). Well I was poking around on the net this afternoon and found a reference of Australian "Z" Force units in the Pacific using Lugers! It's “Activities of Alex Hawkins in Z special Unit 1944/45" at http://www.grantsmilitaria.com/garrett/html/z_spec.htm I am stoked! I think this may explain the "Dad and Dave Industries" marking on my LP08! Any thoughts folks.