My first luger; need help identifying

HoffiMarc · 03-26-2004, 06:05 PM

Hi Everyone.

I recently bought my first luger. It is a civil type, with the ARI-barrel, fix sight.
The only manufacturer-sign is "S/42", not the Mauser-sign.

below are some Pictures of the gun.

Pic0
Pic1
Pic2
Pic3
Pic4

Pic5
maybe you'll need to press the refresh-button, as the server is not the best one...

Can anyone tell me more of this gun? As I heard, the civil variants had the "Mauser" stamp on it, not the "S/42"-code.

Greets from the rainy bavaria...
HoffiMarc

Roadkill · 03-26-2004, 08:36 PM

Welcome to the forum, very very nice gun. I'm a little unsure what you mean by the "civil variants", there were commercial Lugers made for export in the 20s and many military guns were reworked for export in the same period but this isn't one of them. This is a military 1938 S42 which was the code name for Mauser at the time. Germany was under restriction from the Versailles Treaty at the end of WWI and not allowed to produce but a limited number of military guns but the situation being what it was a way was found to circumvent the restrictions by using the codes. The barrel is a replacement as is the sideplate. Great gun, once again welcome, and I complement you on your photographic skills and English. (Wir haben mehere Deutsche hier und sie sind alle ausgezeichnete Mitglieder)

rk

HoffiMarc · 03-30-2004, 01:19 PM

Hi and thanks for the reply.
So you think, that someone changed the barrel after the wars?
Was it usually that the "new" barrel got the same serial number like the rest of the gun?

I thought that I can find no stamps like the crown or the eagle. There is a new one (hidden), the german eagle from the years after ww2.
And, as shown on PIC3, there is one, which was used for civil weapons/hunting weapons and so on (as far as I heard) which was "Oberndorf am Neckar"

I find it very interesting learning more about the "mysterious" history of luger guns.
(Thats why I'll try to get the licence to collect these guns in not too far future...)
also thanks for the compliments :-)

Dein Deutsch ist Ã?Â¼brigens auch sehr gut!
greets from now sunny bavaria...

Pete Ebbink · 03-30-2004, 01:40 PM

Guys,

Are strawed parts on a 1938 S/42 correct ? I thought Mauser had switched over to blued small parts by then...???

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

John Sabato · 03-30-2004, 01:53 PM

The switchover year is 1937... I don't think strawed parts would be right on a 1938 unless maybe it was a commercial banner model?

HoffiMarc · 03-30-2004, 02:02 PM

As my dictionary doesn't give me sure results:
is "strawed" the "Streichbruenierung" (putting on the "colour" with a brush)
and "blued" the "Tauchbruenierung" (putting on the "colour" by throwing the hole gun into the colour ?
:-)

As a german collector told me, guns first have got the "Tauchbruenierung" after ww2...

Ron Wood · 03-30-2004, 02:09 PM

"Strawing" is a heat treatment that turns the metal a golden color when the right temperature is reached. On earlier Lugers it was predominantly used on the small parts such as the trigger, takedown lever, thumb safety and ejector.

John Sabato · 03-30-2004, 02:30 PM

Here is a visual example of a blued safety lever on a post 1937 Mauser made Luger and a Krieghoff Luger with a strawed safety Luger.

Hope this has helped you understand the difference.

HoffiMarc · 03-30-2004, 02:45 PM

Thanks for the good explaining of "blued" etc.
So, as my small parts are strawed, this is one more sign that my gun is a "special unicate for e.g. an civilist" ?

@tacfoley: I know that Mauser was in Oberndorf.
but: the single stag-horn was, as far as I know, only a civil fire examine sign ("Beschusszeichen") (at least I learnt this in my examine for sport shooter's license)

regards

John Sabato · 03-30-2004, 03:36 PM

Actually HoffiMarc, the strawing was also used on military Lugers prior to the middle of 1937. Once the war machine was pressed for time, they reduced costs by hot bluing the whole pistol and eliminated strawing.

Pete Ebbink · 03-30-2004, 07:19 PM

Hello Marcus,

Since "pic 0" shows several 2-digit serial numbers of some parts, most likely this was a military gun that had some small parts refinished and got rebarreled as well. The side plate, a replacement piece, should have the 2-digit serial number stamping as well.

The commercial-style serial numbering had the 2-digits "hidden" and mostly stamped on edges of the parts.

"Pic 02" appears to show the extractor as being strawed...but I am not 100% sure. It should be blued.

"pic 04" appears to show that the front portion of the frame where the serial numbers are stamped may have been refinished. The middle two numbers are very faint; possibly the depth of original stamping was lost due to polishing of metal and the outer two numbers may have been re-struck...?

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

HoffiMarc · 03-31-2004, 12:42 PM

Hello Pete,
thanks for the very interesting hints.
You are right, the extractor is also strawed.

As you mentioned on PIC4, that the inner two numbers are more lighter than the outer... Tonight, I will look if there the material feels "bumped"...
btw: What does the "f" stand for on PIC4?

kind regards
Marcus

Pete Ebbink · 03-31-2004, 12:59 PM

Hello Marcus,

The "f" is the serial number suffix for military issued lugers.

During WWI, each year they started with pistol # 1 and went up to pistol # 9999 or # 10000. After that they went to # 1a # 2a,...# 9999a, etc. They would continue right through the A-Z alphabet for that year. The next year, they would start with # 1, again...

During the 3rd. Reich period, they would start each year where the last year left off...not automatically restart at # 1.

Your "f" suffix indicates that year they went through at least the "f" suffix block...and probably more beyond that.

Jan Still in his TRL book on page 16 indicate the 1938 S/42's ran from 400b through 4500n; with ~ 113,800 lugers made by Mauser in that year.

Best Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

03-26-2004, 06:05 PM	#1
HoffiMarc User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Munich, Bavaria Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My first luger; need help identifying Hi Everyone. I recently bought my first luger. It is a civil type, with the ARI-barrel, fix sight. The only manufacturer-sign is "S/42", not the Mauser-sign. below are some Pictures of the gun. Pic0 Pic1 Pic2 Pic3 Pic4 Pic5 maybe you'll need to press the refresh-button, as the server is not the best one... Can anyone tell me more of this gun? As I heard, the civil variants had the "Mauser" stamp on it, not the "S/42"-code. Greets from the rainy bavaria... HoffiMarc

03-30-2004, 01:53 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	The switchover year is 1937... I don't think strawed parts would be right on a 1938 unless maybe it was a commercial banner model? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-30-2004, 02:09 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 6,988 Thanks: 1,067 Thanked 5,099 Times in 1,676 Posts	"Strawing" is a heat treatment that turns the metal a golden color when the right temperature is reached. On earlier Lugers it was predominantly used on the small parts such as the trigger, takedown lever, thumb safety and ejector. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

03-30-2004, 02:30 PM	#8
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Here is a visual example of a blued safety lever on a post 1937 Mauser made Luger and a Krieghoff Luger with a strawed safety Luger. Hope this has helped you understand the difference. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-30-2004, 03:36 PM	#10
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,150 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Actually HoffiMarc, the strawing was also used on military Lugers prior to the middle of 1937. Once the war machine was pressed for time, they reduced costs by hot bluing the whole pistol and eliminated strawing. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-26-2004, 08:36 PM	#2
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Welcome to the forum, very very nice gun. I'm a little unsure what you mean by the "civil variants", there were commercial Lugers made for export in the 20s and many military guns were reworked for export in the same period but this isn't one of them. This is a military 1938 S42 which was the code name for Mauser at the time. Germany was under restriction from the Versailles Treaty at the end of WWI and not allowed to produce but a limited number of military guns but the situation being what it was a way was found to circumvent the restrictions by using the codes. The barrel is a replacement as is the sideplate. Great gun, once again welcome, and I complement you on your photographic skills and English. (Wir haben mehere Deutsche hier und sie sind alle ausgezeichnete Mitglieder) rk

03-30-2004, 01:19 PM	#3
HoffiMarc User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Munich, Bavaria Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi and thanks for the reply. So you think, that someone changed the barrel after the wars? Was it usually that the "new" barrel got the same serial number like the rest of the gun? I thought that I can find no stamps like the crown or the eagle. There is a new one (hidden), the german eagle from the years after ww2. And, as shown on PIC3, there is one, which was used for civil weapons/hunting weapons and so on (as far as I heard) which was "Oberndorf am Neckar" I find it very interesting learning more about the "mysterious" history of luger guns. (Thats why I'll try to get the licence to collect these guns in not too far future...) also thanks for the compliments :-) Dein Deutsch ist Ã?Â¼brigens auch sehr gut! greets from now sunny bavaria...

03-30-2004, 01:40 PM	#4
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Guys, Are strawed parts on a 1938 S/42 correct ? I thought Mauser had switched over to blued small parts by then...??? Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

03-30-2004, 02:02 PM	#6
HoffiMarc User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Munich, Bavaria Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	As my dictionary doesn't give me sure results: is "strawed" the "Streichbruenierung" (putting on the "colour" with a brush) and "blued" the "Tauchbruenierung" (putting on the "colour" by throwing the hole gun into the colour ? :-) As a german collector told me, guns first have got the "Tauchbruenierung" after ww2...

03-30-2004, 02:45 PM	#9
HoffiMarc User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Munich, Bavaria Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the good explaining of "blued" etc. So, as my small parts are strawed, this is one more sign that my gun is a "special unicate for e.g. an civilist" ? @tacfoley: I know that Mauser was in Oberndorf. but: the single stag-horn was, as far as I know, only a civil fire examine sign ("Beschusszeichen") (at least I learnt this in my examine for sport shooter's license) regards

03-30-2004, 07:19 PM	#11
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Marcus, Since "pic 0" shows several 2-digit serial numbers of some parts, most likely this was a military gun that had some small parts refinished and got rebarreled as well. The side plate, a replacement piece, should have the 2-digit serial number stamping as well. The commercial-style serial numbering had the 2-digits "hidden" and mostly stamped on edges of the parts. "Pic 02" appears to show the extractor as being strawed...but I am not 100% sure. It should be blued. "pic 04" appears to show that the front portion of the frame where the serial numbers are stamped may have been refinished. The middle two numbers are very faint; possibly the depth of original stamping was lost due to polishing of metal and the outer two numbers may have been re-struck...? Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

03-31-2004, 12:42 PM	#12
HoffiMarc User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Munich, Bavaria Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hello Pete, thanks for the very interesting hints. You are right, the extractor is also strawed. As you mentioned on PIC4, that the inner two numbers are more lighter than the outer... Tonight, I will look if there the material feels "bumped"... btw: What does the "f" stand for on PIC4? kind regards Marcus

03-31-2004, 12:59 PM	#13
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Marcus, The "f" is the serial number suffix for military issued lugers. During WWI, each year they started with pistol # 1 and went up to pistol # 9999 or # 10000. After that they went to # 1a # 2a,...# 9999a, etc. They would continue right through the A-Z alphabet for that year. The next year, they would start with # 1, again... During the 3rd. Reich period, they would start each year where the last year left off...not automatically restart at # 1. Your "f" suffix indicates that year they went through at least the "f" suffix block...and probably more beyond that. Jan Still in his TRL book on page 16 indicate the 1938 S/42's ran from 400b through 4500n; with ~ 113,800 lugers made by Mauser in that year. Best Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />