Great Grandad's not-so-long-lost Luger

Rob · 03-15-2003, 07:17 PM

My Dad had always said that his grandfather had a German Luger, but he thought it was stolen in 1947 from his house in Marysvale, UT. Well, last year my dad's cousin was moving and told my dad that he wanted him to have this "old Luger that Grandpa had". I had never seen my Dad so excited! We retrieved the Erfurt-made Luger, put in a missing locking bolt spring, and it shoots perfectly after almost 60 years of rest. It has "Germany" stamped on the frame above the locking bolt and the date that is usually on the top of the frame seems to have been ground off (nicely done). From the info we have gathered, this seems to be an import that may have been sold in the US in the 1920s for around $20-30(?). Anyway, a nice shooter that that provided my Dad some great pleasure before his passing in December.

Rob · 03-15-2003, 07:56 PM

...By the way...it seems to be a "'parts gun". Barrell ser# 3267 (e or l?), frame ser# 8791a, mag ser# 5893 (e or l?), Erfurt "Crown" toggle with "91" stamped in 3 places. "10" stamped on side plate.
Anyway, nice shooter in good condition that will stay in the family like it has for the past 70 years or so!
The story goes that my Dad's cousin and their Grandpa were walking along a river in Idaho in the 1930s. Young Cousin Bob saw a rattlesnake, and Grandpa went in to get this Luger. Grandpa shot the head off the rattler, and Cousin Bob was amazed at Grandpa's skill. Grandpa humbley dismissed his skill and said that, "...rattlesnakes strike at heat, I shot close enough for it to strike at the bullet, which took it's head off."
An engineer-gunsmith/friend of my Dad had heard stories like that before and said that it might be possible, given the slow bullet and the rapid striking ability of the snake...legend, myth, or fact? Cool story, whatever the reality!

Rob

Edward Tinker · 03-15-2003, 09:37 PM

Myth I would think, but I have heard it also, and makes for a cool story!

Nice looking Erfurt, my first was (and still have it) an Erfurt and I like it!

Ed

LarryT · 03-15-2003, 10:45 PM

Rob,
Great story!! My first Luger is an Erfurt also and I wish I had such a story to go with it. Fun.
Larry

saxman · 03-16-2003, 07:42 AM

'Slow' 9mm? Try 1200 feet per second! Your grandad was just cracking a joke to make light of a great (and lucky) shot. Any engineer that thinks a snake can sense and react to a bullet needs to get his license renewed.

lugerholsterrepair · 03-16-2003, 12:00 PM

Rob, Having been bitten by a six and a half foot diamond back rattler,13 rattles, I can attest to their speed but many animals here in the desert are faster, killing this great snake for fun and food. The lynx commonly kills them just for the hell of it. The roadrunner kills them for food.

I must tell you that is not cheap to get bitten, cost me about $50,000 and two surgeries.

I also do not recommend killing them either as they are an important link in the ecological chain. Simply back away and they will leave you alone. Here in AZ they are an endangered species and it is illegal to kill one.

When I was getting surgery on my hand my Dr. told me she treated many more gunshot victims than snake bites because the snake shooter would draw his weapon in an excited manner and shoot himself accidently. She said many of these idiots were shot in the groin area from carrying or replacing a pistol in the front of the belt. OUCH!

As for the story, it is a good one and you must tell it to any and all....Jerry Burney

wterrell · 03-16-2003, 02:17 PM

Hold on there! Rattlesnakes are quick!
I was bitten by a timber rattler about 20 years ago while running my dogs on a creek bottom. Whenever I was young, I was fast. (I could snatch a shadow from under a quail before he could respond with flight.) Came upon this timber rattler and figured that I would catch him. So I quickly reached and grabbed hold of a piece of thick air while the rattler politely licked my arm. I swole-up famously.
I believe Rob's rattlesnake story completely!

lugerholsterrepair · 03-16-2003, 02:49 PM

Wes, When you were young rattlesnakes were just developing on the planet, maybe they wern't fully formed yet....Jerry Burney

JohnB · 03-16-2003, 10:07 PM

Last time I tangled with a rattler (little one--under 2 feet) we skinned it and cooked it...since its head was already off... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

My fingers (and the web between) that handled the snake had a serious sloughing problem for about a week or so. Large amounts of surface skin peeling off, worse than a sunburn...I actually had to put bandages on to prevent further damage.

Don't like to bother snakes any more...

Big Norm · 03-16-2003, 10:19 PM

Being from Michigan, I don't know much about snakes. But when I was in Kentucky, the sport for kids was to grab a black snake by the tail and snap its head off. But a cotton mounth snake looks very much like a black snake and is considerably faster. So many a Kentucky kid has learned the hard way to look before grabbing. I don't bother to look, I just run.
Big Norm

John Sabato · 03-16-2003, 10:51 PM

Once while departing a military pistol range at Fort Gordon Georgia, I saw a rattlesnake slither across the road in front of my van. I wasn't more that 50 yards from the range shack where my team had broken for lunch, so I called back to my team to bring me my 1911A1 and a clip of ammunition. A young sergeant brought it to me and asked me what the problem was as I was locking and loading my weapon. As I aimed at the snake I told him that about ten feet to his right was a rattlesnake about 30 inches long. He said "how can be you sure?" I told him to pick up a tree limb that was about 8 feet long and wack him with it from a safe distance. He did so, and the snake immediately coiled up and began his rattling... upon which I drew a bead on him and emptied the magazine of .45 ACP. The young sergeant asked me why I did that... my reply was that I was going to be back out here tomorrow and might NOT see the snake...

I Hate Snakes! We killed at least one rattler a week on that pistol range...

Not many rattlers here in Virginia, but my favorite weapon of choice is a riding mower... They just can't deal with the rotating blades very well... It is fatal for the snake at every encounter

I got one other great and true snake story but I will save that for another time.

Thor · 03-16-2003, 11:13 PM

I once killed a rattle snake (about 5 feet long) with my 9mm Luger firing CCI Snake shot load. One round at 10' did it! The 45 Load is deciding better than the 9mm or even 357 magnum load and even cycles in my H&K 45 Compact USP. We have lost a great yellow lab on a dove hunt! I hate em too!

Rob · 03-17-2003, 12:14 AM

Thanks for the replies, guys. My Dad would have enjoyed reading these. I am fortunate to have several other "family guns" with stories attached to them. I consider these to be priceless family treasures.
I posted at the S & W forum ( http://www.smith-wessonforum.com ) about a couple of Great Grandad's revolvers in the 1857-1945 forum. The best story is about returning my Dad his Korean Era 1911A1 that my Mom made him sell when I was born. That was Xmas, 1999...it rekindled a love for firearms that we enjoyed until he died this last December. I am 45, Dad was 73. All you guys with Dads still around...pay him back with something priceless. I can't express how powerful the feeling is.

Rob

BIRDMAN 1 · 03-17-2003, 05:04 AM

Good story Rob

I grew up with timber rattlers but the one snake I feared more was the copperhead... they gave no warning just pain!!!That was in PA..Oh my first luger is a Efurt.. Now that I live in Da U.P. of MI no worries...

Roadkill · 03-17-2003, 12:17 PM

North Alabama is blessed with three of the best, rattlesnakes will shy away if given a chance, cottonmouths are very defensive in the spring and will attack, copperheads are stupid and will stay in a campsite with people all around. Most likely cottonmouths will be on a bank or near water, get between them and their escape route and it gets exciting. They will sun on a tree hanging over the creek, get under them and it gets exciting. I was with a scout troop in the backwoods, twenty or so kids, I was in the rear , heard someone say "watch out for that snake" up ahead, got up to it and it was a 6' timber rattler coiled by the trail, all the kids had walked by less than three feet from it, hadn't rattled or got aggressive. Skin looks good on the wall. Another time coming in from hunting and it got dark on me, stepped all over a snake. Took a little bit of two stepping but I finally kilt it, it was a 39" copperhead. Skin looks good on the wall. Never been bit. Anybody interested contact me off forum and I'll tell you how to skin and tan them. Been doing it for years. Whenever I get out of my canoe I keep the 5' paddle in my hand until area is checked out. I tried to hit a cottonmouth with a pistol once. Won't do that again.

rk

John Sabato · 03-17-2003, 01:01 PM

RK,

Pistol for snakes is OK! You just need to use the proper caliber and loads... .45 shotloads do a FINE job.

But where firearms and snakes are concerned... nothing beats a shotgun in ANY guage...

I used to know a young soldier from Tennessee or Arkansas that carried a military surplus machette in the turnk of his car. He could walk up to any snake and remove the head in one swoop... He never cut off more than about 2 inches, and I never saw him miss.

ME? I rely on heartier methods that involve a little more distance and a loud bang, -OR- as indicated above... a riding mower with the blade engaged and throttle maxed out.

tomas ashe · 04-04-2003, 10:28 AM

is this rattlesnake forum?

John Sabato · 04-04-2003, 11:04 AM

We have a few snakes here and there

but we try not to pay them too much attention.

saxman · 04-09-2003, 07:55 PM

I read about a guy who carried shot shells in his 8" .44 Magnum revolver when in the field - called it his 'snake tenderizer'.
http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/pu...sp?id_=2124950

Completely off topic, here's a pic of my brand-new early '90s FEG 'Hi-Power' PJK-9HP.

saxman · 04-09-2003, 09:32 PM

Try this:

http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/2124950.jpg

03-15-2003, 07:17 PM	#1
Rob User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Alta Loma, CA Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Great Grandad's not-so-long-lost Luger My Dad had always said that his grandfather had a German Luger, but he thought it was stolen in 1947 from his house in Marysvale, UT. Well, last year my dad's cousin was moving and told my dad that he wanted him to have this "old Luger that Grandpa had". I had never seen my Dad so excited! We retrieved the Erfurt-made Luger, put in a missing locking bolt spring, and it shoots perfectly after almost 60 years of rest. It has "Germany" stamped on the frame above the locking bolt and the date that is usually on the top of the frame seems to have been ground off (nicely done). From the info we have gathered, this seems to be an import that may have been sold in the US in the 1920s for around $20-30(?). Anyway, a nice shooter that that provided my Dad some great pleasure before his passing in December.

03-15-2003, 09:37 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Myth I would think, but I have heard it also, and makes for a cool story! Nice looking Erfurt, my first was (and still have it) an Erfurt and I like it! Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-16-2003, 07:42 AM	#5
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	'Slow' 9mm? Try 1200 feet per second! Your grandad was just cracking a joke to make light of a great (and lucky) shot. Any engineer that thinks a snake can sense and react to a bullet needs to get his license renewed. __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

03-16-2003, 12:00 PM	#6
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Rob, Having been bitten by a six and a half foot diamond back rattler,13 rattles, I can attest to their speed but many animals here in the desert are faster, killing this great snake for fun and food. The lynx commonly kills them just for the hell of it. The roadrunner kills them for food. I must tell you that is not cheap to get bitten, cost me about $50,000 and two surgeries. I also do not recommend killing them either as they are an important link in the ecological chain. Simply back away and they will leave you alone. Here in AZ they are an endangered species and it is illegal to kill one. When I was getting surgery on my hand my Dr. told me she treated many more gunshot victims than snake bites because the snake shooter would draw his weapon in an excited manner and shoot himself accidently. She said many of these idiots were shot in the groin area from carrying or replacing a pistol in the front of the belt. OUCH! As for the story, it is a good one and you must tell it to any and all....Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-16-2003, 02:17 PM	#7
wterrell User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,096 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hold on there! Rattlesnakes are quick! I was bitten by a timber rattler about 20 years ago while running my dogs on a creek bottom. Whenever I was young, I was fast. (I could snatch a shadow from under a quail before he could respond with flight.) Came upon this timber rattler and figured that I would catch him. So I quickly reached and grabbed hold of a piece of thick air while the rattler politely licked my arm. I swole-up famously. I believe Rob's rattlesnake story completely! __________________ Noli me vocare, ego te vocabo, wes --------------------

03-15-2003, 07:56 PM	#2
Rob User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Alta Loma, CA Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	...By the way...it seems to be a "'parts gun". Barrell ser# 3267 (e or l?), frame ser# 8791a, mag ser# 5893 (e or l?), Erfurt "Crown" toggle with "91" stamped in 3 places. "10" stamped on side plate. Anyway, nice shooter in good condition that will stay in the family like it has for the past 70 years or so! The story goes that my Dad's cousin and their Grandpa were walking along a river in Idaho in the 1930s. Young Cousin Bob saw a rattlesnake, and Grandpa went in to get this Luger. Grandpa shot the head off the rattler, and Cousin Bob was amazed at Grandpa's skill. Grandpa humbley dismissed his skill and said that, "...rattlesnakes strike at heat, I shot close enough for it to strike at the bullet, which took it's head off." An engineer-gunsmith/friend of my Dad had heard stories like that before and said that it might be possible, given the slow bullet and the rapid striking ability of the snake...legend, myth, or fact? Cool story, whatever the reality! Rob

03-15-2003, 10:45 PM	#4
LarryT User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Indianapolis, Indiana Posts: 50 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Rob, Great story!! My first Luger is an Erfurt also and I wish I had such a story to go with it. Fun. Larry

03-16-2003, 02:49 PM	#8
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	Wes, When you were young rattlesnakes were just developing on the planet, maybe they wern't fully formed yet....Jerry Burney __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."

03-16-2003, 10:07 PM	#9
JohnB Banned Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 28 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Last time I tangled with a rattler (little one--under 2 feet) we skinned it and cooked it...since its head was already off... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> My fingers (and the web between) that handled the snake had a serious sloughing problem for about a week or so. Large amounts of surface skin peeling off, worse than a sunburn...I actually had to put bandages on to prevent further damage. Don't like to bother snakes any more...

03-16-2003, 10:19 PM	#10
Big Norm RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 1,864 Thanks: 1 Thanked 6 Times in 5 Posts	Being from Michigan, I don't know much about snakes. But when I was in Kentucky, the sport for kids was to grab a black snake by the tail and snap its head off. But a cotton mounth snake looks very much like a black snake and is considerably faster. So many a Kentucky kid has learned the hard way to look before grabbing. I don't bother to look, I just run. Big Norm

03-16-2003, 10:51 PM	#11
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Once while departing a military pistol range at Fort Gordon Georgia, I saw a rattlesnake slither across the road in front of my van. I wasn't more that 50 yards from the range shack where my team had broken for lunch, so I called back to my team to bring me my 1911A1 and a clip of ammunition. A young sergeant brought it to me and asked me what the problem was as I was locking and loading my weapon. As I aimed at the snake I told him that about ten feet to his right was a rattlesnake about 30 inches long. He said "how can be you sure?" I told him to pick up a tree limb that was about 8 feet long and wack him with it from a safe distance. He did so, and the snake immediately coiled up and began his rattling... upon which I drew a bead on him and emptied the magazine of .45 ACP. The young sergeant asked me why I did that... my reply was that I was going to be back out here tomorrow and might NOT see the snake... I Hate Snakes! We killed at least one rattler a week on that pistol range... Not many rattlers here in Virginia, but my favorite weapon of choice is a riding mower... They just can't deal with the rotating blades very well... It is fatal for the snake at every encounter I got one other great and true snake story but I will save that for another time. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

03-16-2003, 11:13 PM	#12
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	I once killed a rattle snake (about 5 feet long) with my 9mm Luger firing CCI Snake shot load. One round at 10' did it! The 45 Load is deciding better than the 9mm or even 357 magnum load and even cycles in my H&K 45 Compact USP. We have lost a great yellow lab on a dove hunt! I hate em too! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

03-17-2003, 12:14 AM	#13
Rob User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Alta Loma, CA Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the replies, guys. My Dad would have enjoyed reading these. I am fortunate to have several other "family guns" with stories attached to them. I consider these to be priceless family treasures. I posted at the S & W forum ( http://www.smith-wessonforum.com ) about a couple of Great Grandad's revolvers in the 1857-1945 forum. The best story is about returning my Dad his Korean Era 1911A1 that my Mom made him sell when I was born. That was Xmas, 1999...it rekindled a love for firearms that we enjoyed until he died this last December. I am 45, Dad was 73. All you guys with Dads still around...pay him back with something priceless. I can't express how powerful the feeling is. Rob

03-17-2003, 05:04 AM	#14
BIRDMAN 1 User Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: REPUBLIC, MI Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Good story Rob I grew up with timber rattlers but the one snake I feared more was the copperhead... they gave no warning just pain!!!That was in PA..Oh my first luger is a Efurt.. Now that I live in Da U.P. of MI no worries...

03-17-2003, 12:17 PM	#15
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,634 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	North Alabama is blessed with three of the best, rattlesnakes will shy away if given a chance, cottonmouths are very defensive in the spring and will attack, copperheads are stupid and will stay in a campsite with people all around. Most likely cottonmouths will be on a bank or near water, get between them and their escape route and it gets exciting. They will sun on a tree hanging over the creek, get under them and it gets exciting. I was with a scout troop in the backwoods, twenty or so kids, I was in the rear , heard someone say "watch out for that snake" up ahead, got up to it and it was a 6' timber rattler coiled by the trail, all the kids had walked by less than three feet from it, hadn't rattled or got aggressive. Skin looks good on the wall. Another time coming in from hunting and it got dark on me, stepped all over a snake. Took a little bit of two stepping but I finally kilt it, it was a 39" copperhead. Skin looks good on the wall. Never been bit. Anybody interested contact me off forum and I'll tell you how to skin and tan them. Been doing it for years. Whenever I get out of my canoe I keep the 5' paddle in my hand until area is checked out. I tried to hit a cottonmouth with a pistol once. Won't do that again. rk

03-17-2003, 01:01 PM	#16
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	RK, Pistol for snakes is OK! You just need to use the proper caliber and loads... .45 shotloads do a FINE job. But where firearms and snakes are concerned... nothing beats a shotgun in ANY guage... I used to know a young soldier from Tennessee or Arkansas that carried a military surplus machette in the turnk of his car. He could walk up to any snake and remove the head in one swoop... He never cut off more than about 2 inches, and I never saw him miss. ME? I rely on heartier methods that involve a little more distance and a loud bang, -OR- as indicated above... a riding mower with the blade engaged and throttle maxed out. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-04-2003, 10:28 AM	#17
tomas ashe New User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	is this rattlesnake forum?

04-04-2003, 11:04 AM	#18
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	We have a few snakes here and there but we try not to pay them too much attention. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

04-09-2003, 07:55 PM	#19
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I read about a guy who carried shot shells in his 8" .44 Magnum revolver when in the field - called it his 'snake tenderizer'. http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/pu...sp?id_=2124950 Completely off topic, here's a pic of my brand-new early '90s FEG 'Hi-Power' PJK-9HP. __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.

04-09-2003, 09:32 PM	#20
saxman User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 301 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Try this: http://image1ex.villagephotos.com/2124950.jpg __________________ You can lead 'em to the water, but you can't make 'em drink.