1908 Commercial

drbuster · 11-14-2002, 11:45 PM

Examined a beautiful 98-99% (blue AND straw) DWM commercial in local gun shop. Serial #59055. It had lazy C/N proofs on the left side of the frame and all the usual other places. Clip bottom unmarked. Kenyon states that 9000 were made in serial range 39000-71500. Does anyone know when the "BUG" proofs transitioned to C/N proofs. My guess is that this piece was made between 1912-1914. They're asking top dollar for this 1908 commercial. Would like to know if C/N are scarcer than BUG proofed pistols. [img]rolleyes.gif[/img]

Johnny Peppers · 11-15-2002, 12:08 AM

Herbert,
The BUG proofs were phased out in the 1911/12 time frame. Just my opinion, but I prefer the BUG proofs to the Nitro proof. I wouldn't think there would be any price difference on the proofs alone.

drbuster · 11-15-2002, 08:45 AM

Thanks Johnny. Owner is asking $3000 which seems a little dear to me as the blue book gives a figure of $2250-2500 but this piece sure is pretty.

Ron Wood · 11-15-2002, 01:09 PM

Considering where you live, I am pretty sure I know the local gun shop where you found the 1908, and I also think I saw that gun at the Las Vegas show. It is one of the most pristine Lugers I have seen for a while and certainly the nicest 1908 Commercial I have seen. The $3000 tag also was a tad high in my opinion, but my lower offer was obviously too low, so it didn't go home with me. <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" />

drbuster · 11-15-2002, 08:39 PM

Dear Ron, I'm sure you are correct in all you said. Mike took the piece to Las Vegas. I'll ponder whether to part with $3000. The owner, I am told, is in no hurry to sell.

Imperial Arms · 11-15-2002, 09:42 PM

Dear Mr. Fisher,

Usually, the BUG proof marks are scarcer than the C/N proof marks and for some strange reason, collectors prefer the BUG marks probably because it is earlier.

In the case of the 1908 Commercial you described, it does not really matter - what matters is condition. Remember the 3C's of collecting - condition, condition, condition. The $3,000 price tag is on the steep side, but if a few dollars more does not dent your wallet and you cannot live without this Luger - GO FOR IT!

I am not trying to push you to buy it, but collecting Lugers can 'suck' you in, especially the near mint ones!

I would like to show you my near mint 1906 Royal Navy Portuguese Luger complete with all its accessories, but I do not have an image at the moment. Ron, if you have an image available from the March Tulsa Gunshow, you are welcome to post it here. Herb, you can visit my website below to glance at various types of Lugers.

Happy hunting,
Albert

Ron Wood · 11-15-2002, 10:08 PM

Sadly Albert, I do not have an image of your 1906 Royal Portuguese Navy. I wish I did so folks could see how nice it is (actually I wish I had the Luger! [img]smile.gif[/img] ).

Lugerdoc · 11-16-2002, 11:02 AM

Dr. Herb, I'd be concerned if the Crown/N marking is horizontal, lazy as you describe it. To my knowledge, a M1908 in the 59xxx range should have a VERTICLE C/N. Tom H.

Imperial Arms · 11-16-2002, 12:50 PM

Tom,

I believe you are right - to the best of my knowledge, it should have a vertical C/N.

Albert

Ron Wood · 11-16-2002, 01:20 PM

No, the lazy Crown/N is correct as far as I know for all 1908 commercials. The lazy proof continues into the "1914 Commercial" range. I have owned three in the 70,000 to 74,000 range with the lazy Crown/N. Even the Basil Police Lugers in the 74-76,000 range have the lazy proof.

drbuster · 11-16-2002, 01:46 PM

THANK YOU Ron. Before I part with $3000 I would want to make certain that this piece was not "messed with". Appreciate everyone's learned remarks. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Imperial Arms · 11-16-2002, 03:42 PM

OOPS, I got my wires mixed up - Ron is correct with the lazy C/N. Excuse me for my mistake.

Albert

11-14-2002, 11:45 PM	#1
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	1908 Commercial Examined a beautiful 98-99% (blue AND straw) DWM commercial in local gun shop. Serial #59055. It had lazy C/N proofs on the left side of the frame and all the usual other places. Clip bottom unmarked. Kenyon states that 9000 were made in serial range 39000-71500. Does anyone know when the "BUG" proofs transitioned to C/N proofs. My guess is that this piece was made between 1912-1914. They're asking top dollar for this 1908 commercial. Would like to know if C/N are scarcer than BUG proofed pistols. [img]rolleyes.gif[/img]

11-15-2002, 01:09 PM	#4
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Considering where you live, I am pretty sure I know the local gun shop where you found the 1908, and I also think I saw that gun at the Las Vegas show. It is one of the most pristine Lugers I have seen for a while and certainly the nicest 1908 Commercial I have seen. The $3000 tag also was a tad high in my opinion, but my lower offer was obviously too low, so it didn't go home with me. <img src="graemlins/crying.gif" border="0" alt="[crying]" /> __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-15-2002, 10:08 PM	#7
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Sadly Albert, I do not have an image of your 1906 Royal Portuguese Navy. I wish I did so folks could see how nice it is (actually I wish I had the Luger! [img]smile.gif[/img] ). __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-16-2002, 11:02 AM	#8
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	Dr. Herb, I'd be concerned if the Crown/N marking is horizontal, lazy as you describe it. To my knowledge, a M1908 in the 59xxx range should have a VERTICLE C/N. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

11-16-2002, 01:20 PM	#10
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	No, the lazy Crown/N is correct as far as I know for all 1908 commercials. The lazy proof continues into the "1914 Commercial" range. I have owned three in the 70,000 to 74,000 range with the lazy Crown/N. Even the Basil Police Lugers in the 74-76,000 range have the lazy proof. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

11-15-2002, 12:08 AM	#2
Johnny Peppers User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Calion, Arkansas Posts: 1,042 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Herbert, The BUG proofs were phased out in the 1911/12 time frame. Just my opinion, but I prefer the BUG proofs to the Nitro proof. I wouldn't think there would be any price difference on the proofs alone.

11-15-2002, 08:45 AM	#3
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Thanks Johnny. Owner is asking $3000 which seems a little dear to me as the blue book gives a figure of $2250-2500 but this piece sure is pretty.

11-15-2002, 08:39 PM	#5
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	Dear Ron, I'm sure you are correct in all you said. Mike took the piece to Las Vegas. I'll ponder whether to part with $3000. The owner, I am told, is in no hurry to sell.

11-15-2002, 09:42 PM	#6
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Dear Mr. Fisher, Usually, the BUG proof marks are scarcer than the C/N proof marks and for some strange reason, collectors prefer the BUG marks probably because it is earlier. In the case of the 1908 Commercial you described, it does not really matter - what matters is condition. Remember the 3C's of collecting - condition, condition, condition. The $3,000 price tag is on the steep side, but if a few dollars more does not dent your wallet and you cannot live without this Luger - GO FOR IT! I am not trying to push you to buy it, but collecting Lugers can 'suck' you in, especially the near mint ones! I would like to show you my near mint 1906 Royal Navy Portuguese Luger complete with all its accessories, but I do not have an image at the moment. Ron, if you have an image available from the March Tulsa Gunshow, you are welcome to post it here. Herb, you can visit my website below to glance at various types of Lugers. Happy hunting, Albert

11-16-2002, 12:50 PM	#9
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	Tom, I believe you are right - to the best of my knowledge, it should have a vertical C/N. Albert

11-16-2002, 01:46 PM	#11
drbuster User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Mateo, California Posts: 1,432 Thanks: 2 Thanked 71 Times in 56 Posts	THANK YOU Ron. Before I part with $3000 I would want to make certain that this piece was not "messed with". Appreciate everyone's learned remarks. [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

11-16-2002, 03:42 PM	#12
Imperial Arms Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Malta, EU Posts: 579 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts	OOPS, I got my wires mixed up - Ron is correct with the lazy C/N. Excuse me for my mistake. Albert