JAPANESE LUGER

flawless · 04-15-2003, 08:57 PM

I certainly hope this is in the correct forum? I am wanting to post this to military P-08 Forum. Here goes. I have inheirited a Japanese Luger from my Grandad. I have listed a request for info on a 1910 German Luger and "Roadkill" was a superb gentleman and emailed me with a nice description of what I had. This Luger is Japanese. The left side has a lever with a Japanese character on the left with an arrow on each side of an arch and another character on the right of the arrow. This would be directly over the trigger (maybe a safety?). The back of the gun has a knurled round knob and just infront of this knob are some more characters, 4 to be exact, on the left side. On the right side, just infront of the knurled round knob are the numbers 22761. There are two circles (look like logo's) infront of the number 22761. Just beneath this number there is another number -19.3. On each side of 19.3 is one character (one charater on the left and one character on the right side of the number). On the back and the bottom of the magazine are the numbers 421 with three Japanese characters. The handle is wooden with ribs. The Luger came with a leather holster and a spare magazine. There is a pouch on the front of the holster (about the size of pack of cigarettes) with a metal rod in its own compartment. Overall condition of the Luger 80-90%. Any help authenticating this or an idea of the value will be appreciated. Please email the information because I am having as much trouble receiving answers to my questions as I am imaging a picture of this beauty. Thanks in advance user Member #1126. P.S. J.S. if this is in the area again please excuse my ignorance!

Frank · 04-15-2003, 09:20 PM

Hi Brenda!! Yup you are in the wrong place, but let's see what we can do anyway. Sounds like you have a common Japanese Nambu. It's a bit larger and a lot more ugly than a Luger. It is chambered for an 8mm round, rather than the 9mm Luger cartridge. The 22761 is the serial number and the 19.3 is the date of manufacture (March 1944). The 3 is the month and the 19 is the year of the emperor's reign which began in 1925. Hope this helps!

Edward Tinker · 04-15-2003, 09:32 PM

My first love is the Luger, but I kinda like the Nambu! So, here is a website that might help, they are a good bunch too, some of us hang out there also, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Weapons Of The Rising Sun

flawless · 04-15-2003, 10:08 PM

Thanks for the information Frank, I sincerely appreciate your help.
Flawless

Pete Ebbink · 04-15-2003, 10:37 PM

Hello Brenda,

Here is a photo of a Nambu type 14 pistol. Might this be the type you are asking about ?

(Ooops ! I deleted the photo when I realized the web-site I borrowed it from had a copyright. So in place of the photo, here is the link to that photo : )

http://www.collectorfirearms.us/Handgun/HG-281.htm

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

flawless · 04-15-2003, 10:45 PM

Yes Sir, that is exactly what I have except for the knurled knob on the back end, mine is completely knurled. You guys are Ausome! That's the one!!! Do you have some info?
Brenda

Pete Ebbink · 04-15-2003, 10:50 PM

Hello again, Brenda;

I am just an idiot luger newbie but can find lots of neat jpegs of collector guns on the Internet.

I can refer you to a gun dealer who seems to specialize in Nambus that lives in Las Vegas.

Send me a private e-mail at : pebbink@pacbell.net or use your Private Message feature on this Forum and I can give you this dealer's contact info.

If you consider selling this piece, remember most honest dealers will still try "to buy low to sell high"...

p.s. Here is another link to a discussion forum that deals with Japanese weapons as well; in addition to the good site Ed Tinker referred you...

http://pub109.ezboard.com/fparallaxs...rmsforumsfrm79

Regards,

Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

flawless · 04-15-2003, 11:13 PM

Thank You.

Thor · 04-15-2003, 11:51 PM

Anybody got any exploded views of the Nambu Pistol parts? I have two coming in next week for restoration. Thanks! Thor's Luger Clinic (TLC)

Strider · 04-16-2003, 12:34 PM

Thor,
I found one for you. I just sent you an email.
Sid.

Roadkill · 04-16-2003, 02:23 PM

Could you send me a copy also, I've got one and don't have a clue on how to disassemble it.

Thanks

rk

rgrady@hsv.k12.al.us or sgtroadkill@yahoo.com

Strider · 04-16-2003, 05:06 PM

No Problem, it is on its way.
Sid.

Thor · 04-16-2003, 10:16 PM

Thanks Sid! I appreciate it, just what I needed!

G.T. · 04-16-2003, 10:35 PM

A little bit of Nambu lore learned the hard way!! Whenever you are looking at a Nambu for your collection, before you buy it, no matter how good it looks, perform this simple but all important test.... Grab on to the trigger guard assembly and try to move it... if it MOVES AT ALL, someone has tried to disassemble it incorrectly, and has forced or pryed the trigger guard down, it will never work correctly again!! The timing of the trigger and the sear are dependent on this assembly being tight.... Again, "Stuff you don't learn in books!" till...later...GT

Roadkill · 04-17-2003, 06:45 AM

Sid, Thanks. G.T., if you can send me some instructions on how to disassemble one I'd appreciate it. I really don't know where to start.
rk

Jack Lawman · 04-20-2003, 08:33 AM

Here is another "Japanese Luger" (a fellow collector's). It's a type 1904 made in Tokyo around 1918.

Jim Keenan · 05-06-2003, 07:03 PM

Hi, Flawless,

Your Japanese pistol is the later 14th Year Type (1925). Contrary to some published information, the solid knurled retracting knob is late (1944/45), while the two groove type is the earlier.

The gun in the picture shown by Mr. Lawman is a Type Nambu, usually called the "Papa Nambu". It is sometimes called the 1904 Type but was never formally adopted by the Japanese armed forces, so the correct term is just "Nambu Type" (large). The Nambu Type (small) is what collectors call the "Baby Nambu", a scaled down copy firing a 7mm bottle necked cartridge.

None of the Japanese pistols are actually Lugers and are nothing like them except in very general appearance. The Luger was never made in Japan, although the Japanese imported some at various times. Japanese soldiers also captured Dutch Lugers from the Dutch and KNIL forces in the NEI and used them, but none were official issue.

Jim

flawless · 05-06-2003, 07:59 PM

Jim, thank you very much for this information, you are a darling. Do you have any idea what this pistol is worth?
Brenda

Jim Keenan · 05-06-2003, 10:55 PM

The late Type 14 (basically the wartime guns) are bringing from about $150 to about $300, depending on condition.

You are correct about the safety; it swings 180 degrees from ON to OFF, and was apparently intended to be worked with the left hand. The other oblong button is the retainer for the sear bar. I don't recommend dry firing (firing with no round in the chamber) because the firing pins often break if this is done. There is little original ammunition available and it is costly; new ammunition is custom made and also very expensive, so the gun is not a "shooter".

Jim

04-15-2003, 09:32 PM	#3
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,924 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,518 Times in 2,087 Posts	My first love is the Luger, but I kinda like the Nambu! So, here is a website that might help, they are a good bunch too, some of us hang out there also, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> Weapons Of The Rising Sun __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

04-15-2003, 11:51 PM	#9
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Anybody got any exploded views of the Nambu Pistol parts? I have two coming in next week for restoration. Thanks! Thor's Luger Clinic (TLC) __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

04-16-2003, 12:34 PM	#10
Strider User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 256 Thanks: 26 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thor, I found one for you. I just sent you an email. Sid. __________________ Sid. Patience is a bitter plant, but it has sweet fruit. ~German Proverb If it is made before 1930 ..........It is a prototype.

04-16-2003, 05:06 PM	#12
Strider User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Albuquerque, New Mexico Posts: 256 Thanks: 26 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	No Problem, it is on its way. Sid. __________________ Sid. Patience is a bitter plant, but it has sweet fruit. ~German Proverb If it is made before 1930 ..........It is a prototype.

04-16-2003, 10:16 PM	#13
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Thanks Sid! I appreciate it, just what I needed! __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

04-15-2003, 08:57 PM	#1
flawless User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	JAPANESE LUGER I certainly hope this is in the correct forum? I am wanting to post this to military P-08 Forum. Here goes. I have inheirited a Japanese Luger from my Grandad. I have listed a request for info on a 1910 German Luger and "Roadkill" was a superb gentleman and emailed me with a nice description of what I had. This Luger is Japanese. The left side has a lever with a Japanese character on the left with an arrow on each side of an arch and another character on the right of the arrow. This would be directly over the trigger (maybe a safety?). The back of the gun has a knurled round knob and just infront of this knob are some more characters, 4 to be exact, on the left side. On the right side, just infront of the knurled round knob are the numbers 22761. There are two circles (look like logo's) infront of the number 22761. Just beneath this number there is another number -19.3. On each side of 19.3 is one character (one charater on the left and one character on the right side of the number). On the back and the bottom of the magazine are the numbers 421 with three Japanese characters. The handle is wooden with ribs. The Luger came with a leather holster and a spare magazine. There is a pouch on the front of the holster (about the size of pack of cigarettes) with a metal rod in its own compartment. Overall condition of the Luger 80-90%. Any help authenticating this or an idea of the value will be appreciated. Please email the information because I am having as much trouble receiving answers to my questions as I am imaging a picture of this beauty. Thanks in advance user Member #1126. P.S. J.S. if this is in the area again please excuse my ignorance!

04-15-2003, 09:20 PM	#2
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Hi Brenda!! Yup you are in the wrong place, but let's see what we can do anyway. Sounds like you have a common Japanese Nambu. It's a bit larger and a lot more ugly than a Luger. It is chambered for an 8mm round, rather than the 9mm Luger cartridge. The 22761 is the serial number and the 19.3 is the date of manufacture (March 1944). The 3 is the month and the 19 is the year of the emperor's reign which began in 1925. Hope this helps!

04-15-2003, 10:08 PM	#4
flawless User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for the information Frank, I sincerely appreciate your help. Flawless

04-15-2003, 10:37 PM	#5
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello Brenda, Here is a photo of a Nambu type 14 pistol. Might this be the type you are asking about ? (Ooops ! I deleted the photo when I realized the web-site I borrowed it from had a copyright. So in place of the photo, here is the link to that photo : ) http://www.collectorfirearms.us/Handgun/HG-281.htm Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

04-15-2003, 10:45 PM	#6
flawless User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Yes Sir, that is exactly what I have except for the knurled knob on the back end, mine is completely knurled. You guys are Ausome! That's the one!!! Do you have some info? Brenda

04-15-2003, 10:50 PM	#7
Pete Ebbink User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The USA Posts: 5,919 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 4 Posts	Hello again, Brenda; I am just an idiot luger newbie but can find lots of neat jpegs of collector guns on the Internet. I can refer you to a gun dealer who seems to specialize in Nambus that lives in Las Vegas. Send me a private e-mail at : pebbink@pacbell.net or use your Private Message feature on this Forum and I can give you this dealer's contact info. If you consider selling this piece, remember most honest dealers will still try "to buy low to sell high"... p.s. Here is another link to a discussion forum that deals with Japanese weapons as well; in addition to the good site Ed Tinker referred you... http://pub109.ezboard.com/fparallaxs...rmsforumsfrm79 Regards, Pete... <img border="0" alt="[typing]" title="" src="graemlins/yltype.gif" />

04-15-2003, 11:13 PM	#8
flawless User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thank You.

04-16-2003, 02:23 PM	#11
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Could you send me a copy also, I've got one and don't have a clue on how to disassemble it. Thanks rk rgrady@hsv.k12.al.us or sgtroadkill@yahoo.com

04-16-2003, 10:35 PM	#14
G.T. Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Chandler Arizona Posts: 3,500 Thanks: 1,318 Thanked 3,627 Times in 999 Posts	A little bit of Nambu lore learned the hard way!! Whenever you are looking at a Nambu for your collection, before you buy it, no matter how good it looks, perform this simple but all important test.... Grab on to the trigger guard assembly and try to move it... if it MOVES AT ALL, someone has tried to disassemble it incorrectly, and has forced or pryed the trigger guard down, it will never work correctly again!! The timing of the trigger and the sear are dependent on this assembly being tight.... Again, "Stuff you don't learn in books!" till...later...GT

04-17-2003, 06:45 AM	#15
Roadkill User Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,632 Thanks: 1 Thanked 28 Times in 17 Posts	Sid, Thanks. G.T., if you can send me some instructions on how to disassemble one I'd appreciate it. I really don't know where to start. rk

04-20-2003, 08:33 AM	#16
Jack Lawman User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Near NYC Posts: 428 Thanks: 30 Thanked 64 Times in 37 Posts	Here is another "Japanese Luger" (a fellow collector's). It's a type 1904 made in Tokyo around 1918. __________________ Why do you guys hate black circles so much?

05-06-2003, 07:03 PM	#17
Jim Keenan User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 184 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Hi, Flawless, Your Japanese pistol is the later 14th Year Type (1925). Contrary to some published information, the solid knurled retracting knob is late (1944/45), while the two groove type is the earlier. The gun in the picture shown by Mr. Lawman is a Type Nambu, usually called the "Papa Nambu". It is sometimes called the 1904 Type but was never formally adopted by the Japanese armed forces, so the correct term is just "Nambu Type" (large). The Nambu Type (small) is what collectors call the "Baby Nambu", a scaled down copy firing a 7mm bottle necked cartridge. None of the Japanese pistols are actually Lugers and are nothing like them except in very general appearance. The Luger was never made in Japan, although the Japanese imported some at various times. Japanese soldiers also captured Dutch Lugers from the Dutch and KNIL forces in the NEI and used them, but none were official issue. Jim

05-06-2003, 07:59 PM	#18
flawless User Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Jim, thank you very much for this information, you are a darling. Do you have any idea what this pistol is worth? Brenda

05-06-2003, 10:55 PM	#19
Jim Keenan User Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 184 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	The late Type 14 (basically the wartime guns) are bringing from about $150 to about $300, depending on condition. You are correct about the safety; it swings 180 degrees from ON to OFF, and was apparently intended to be worked with the left hand. The other oblong button is the retainer for the sear bar. I don't recommend dry firing (firing with no round in the chamber) because the firing pins often break if this is done. There is little original ammunition available and it is costly; new ammunition is custom made and also very expensive, so the gun is not a "shooter". Jim