Got One ! Looking for my first Luger...DWM1917 for $900?

alf · 11-08-2004, 03:34 PM

I am hunting around for my first Luger and would like to get some advise on one i found at the local show.

DWM 1917, all parts original with 1 original wood based mag. Seller is asking $900.

I would rate the finish at 60-70% with some very small pits under the barrel.

Is this a fair price?

thanks
alf

George Anderson · 11-08-2004, 03:53 PM

$500.00

John Sabato · 11-08-2004, 04:32 PM

I agree George, with only 60-70% finish and some pits, I would think $900 is about $400 too much.

If you can take some good photos and post them so we can actually see the finish and condition of the gun, it might change the appraisal...

marine kabar · 11-08-2004, 05:09 PM

I normally would agree but I saw a guy sell a DWM 1915 here in GA a few months ago. ZERO finish and some mismatched parts and it was so loose it rattled when you shook it. And the guy still got over $600 for it. :-)

John Sabato · 11-08-2004, 05:46 PM

Hey Leatherneck (a term of endearment)!

You shouldn't base an appraisal on a single transaction that you witnessed...

I have two quotes for you...

"A fool and his money are soon parted"

-AND-

"...There is one born every minute."

What George and I have estimated above, is what the gun that was described is WORTH in today's market...based on it's description.

If you apply the two quotes I submitted above... this gun will easily bring the $900 the seller is asking if he waits until someone with more money than sense enters his store...Or waits a couple of years when "value" catches up to his inflated price.

In the meantime, $900 will buy a much better gun than described if the buyer does his homework, and researches what is available.

alf · 11-08-2004, 06:14 PM

Thanks for all the info

No cameras allowed at the show, so i could not take pictures.

To clarify, the mag has matching serial #s.

I will keep on looking...

alf

John Sabato · 11-08-2004, 06:40 PM

Hold on there Alf...

You just changed the mix...

Here are your original words:

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> DWM 1917, all parts original with 1 original wood based mag. Seller is asking $900. <hr /></blockquote>A MATCHING serial numbered mag, is NOT the same as an original wood based mag... Add at least $50 for a matching serial numbered mag IF, and ONLY IF, you can be sure the mag # isn't a fake...

You also stated "original parts"... that is NOT the same as all matching numbered parts... If that is the case, you can increase the anty about another $100... even for the level of finish you have described.

Other things that may affect the value is if the gun has been refinished at any time in it's life by anyone other than the factory...

Since you can't be sure of all these things, it would be better to find another Luger where you can trust what you are buying by getting a good look ahead of time.

If you just want a Luger to shoot, and condition is not that important except you don't want a rust bucket, then the price range of $500-700 is about right for a gun in good mechanical condition.

Decide on what you can afford, and then place an ad in the Wanted forum... those that have Lugers available will beat a path to your door... and you can ask for photos that you can post here for a closer appraisal of it's value.

alf · 11-08-2004, 08:23 PM

Apologies, i should have been more concise. I am new to gun collecting

All the parts are original with matching serial numbers, including the magazine. The only thing i did not check were the grips. The finish is original as far as i could tell and has about 60 to 70% remaining.

I am looking for an honest, all matching pistol and am willing to spend up to $1500 for one in very good or better condition.

thanks

alf

Edward Tinker · 11-08-2004, 08:48 PM

Alf, first decide on the "era" you want. WW1, Weimar, or WW2, then you can decide how much you want to pay. Buy books, they'll save you a lot in cost later....

But also don't buy the first thing you see, it is far cheaper to look for a couple of months, then buy.

Ed

alf · 11-08-2004, 11:29 PM

Ed
That is good advise and one that i give to people that want to start collecting Japanese swords (i run www.japanesesword.com). I should heed to it

alf

George Anderson · 11-09-2004, 07:06 AM

alf, I would recommend that you go to gunbroker.com auctionarms.com or gunsamerica.com and watch Luger bidding and sales for a few weeks. You will see alot of real transactions as well as have photos to reference should you have questions for this forum.

John Sabato · 11-09-2004, 09:27 AM

I know that a dear friend of this forum, and many other gun forums, "Kyrie" Ellison has a very nice 1940 Luger for sale in the FOR SALE forum ( of all places!) It is a very nice gun. $1100

alf · 12-05-2004, 12:32 PM

I found one

1939/40. Paid $750 off the classified. Hope i did OK on this. Now i need to find an Inglis HP...

http://www.japanesesword.com/Images/...%20Pistols.htm

lodicalif · 12-05-2004, 07:33 PM

I wish to point out one thing which may prove relevant--Guns in Calif or Mass, because of the current laws involved, command a higher price just because big brother makes the transaction cost that much more

lugerlou · 12-05-2004, 08:04 PM

Alf

Watch when you purchase your Inglis that you do not get hooked on the Chinese knockoff's that have been circulating in Canada these days, do not know if any have made their way south of the border but keep a wary eye if the gun looks to nice.

John Sabato · 12-06-2004, 10:48 AM

Alf,

I noticed n one of your photos that the rear slanted surface of the flange that covers the sear bar is serated or checkered... could you show this area in another photo? I haven't seen this on a Luger before...

Has anyone else seen this seration/checkering before on any model Luger? What purpose would it serve?

alf · 12-07-2004, 01:12 AM

JS,
This?

Lou
Thanks for the heads up, i will keep an eye out.

Is this finish original? It looks like the Waffen marks and SN are blued over. $750 a fair price?

thanks
alf

John Sabato · 12-07-2004, 10:12 AM

Yes, Alf... that is the area I was talking about.

I have enlarged and enhanced your photo, and IMHO, the uneven bottom of the cut on the flange (Arrow A), combined with the fact that the surface of the serations are in the white and not blued, and the small scratch at the top (Arrow B) of the flange, leads me to believe that this was a post manufacture repair or modification to correct some damage to the exposed corner of the flange. Possibly the pistol was dropped on a hard (concrete?) surface which raised a burr that might have interfered with proper operation of the sear/sear spring. Unfortuately, the file that was used was the wrong type and it left the serations which are very similar, but larger than the serations on the rear surface of the front sight. A proper file would have left a relatively smooth surface, but would still be white, and not blue.

alf · 12-07-2004, 08:55 PM

JS
The high parts of the serrations are white but the valleys are blue. Perhaps the damage happened before bluing.

alf

11-08-2004, 03:34 PM	#1
alf User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Got One ! Looking for my first Luger...DWM1917 for $900? I am hunting around for my first Luger and would like to get some advise on one i found at the local show. DWM 1917, all parts original with 1 original wood based mag. Seller is asking $900. I would rate the finish at 60-70% with some very small pits under the barrel. Is this a fair price? thanks alf __________________ _ _ _ _ ______ _ _ _ _ Alfred Tan www.JapaneseSword.com

11-08-2004, 04:32 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I agree George, with only 60-70% finish and some pits, I would think $900 is about $400 too much. If you can take some good photos and post them so we can actually see the finish and condition of the gun, it might change the appraisal... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-08-2004, 05:46 PM	#5
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Hey Leatherneck (a term of endearment)! You shouldn't base an appraisal on a single transaction that you witnessed... I have two quotes for you... "A fool and his money are soon parted" -AND- "...There is one born every minute." What George and I have estimated above, is what the gun that was described is WORTH in today's market...based on it's description. If you apply the two quotes I submitted above... this gun will easily bring the $900 the seller is asking if he waits until someone with more money than sense enters his store...Or waits a couple of years when "value" catches up to his inflated price. In the meantime, $900 will buy a much better gun than described if the buyer does his homework, and researches what is available. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-08-2004, 06:14 PM	#6
alf User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for all the info No cameras allowed at the show, so i could not take pictures. To clarify, the mag has matching serial #s. I will keep on looking... alf __________________ _ _ _ _ ______ _ _ _ _ Alfred Tan www.JapaneseSword.com

11-08-2004, 06:40 PM	#7
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Hold on there Alf... You just changed the mix... Here are your original words: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva"> DWM 1917, all parts original with 1 original wood based mag. Seller is asking $900. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,Geneva">A MATCHING serial numbered mag, is NOT the same as an original wood based mag... Add at least $50 for a matching serial numbered mag IF, and ONLY IF, you can be sure the mag # isn't a fake... You also stated "original parts"... that is NOT the same as all matching numbered parts... If that is the case, you can increase the anty about another $100... even for the level of finish you have described. Other things that may affect the value is if the gun has been refinished at any time in it's life by anyone other than the factory... Since you can't be sure of all these things, it would be better to find another Luger where you can trust what you are buying by getting a good look ahead of time. If you just want a Luger to shoot, and condition is not that important except you don't want a rust bucket, then the price range of $500-700 is about right for a gun in good mechanical condition. Decide on what you can afford, and then place an ad in the Wanted forum... those that have Lugers available will beat a path to your door... and you can ask for photos that you can post here for a closer appraisal of it's value. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

11-08-2004, 03:53 PM	#2
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	$500.00

11-08-2004, 05:09 PM	#4
marine kabar User Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Powder Springs GA Posts: 108 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I normally would agree but I saw a guy sell a DWM 1915 here in GA a few months ago. ZERO finish and some mismatched parts and it was so loose it rattled when you shook it. And the guy still got over $600 for it. :-)

11-08-2004, 08:23 PM	#8
alf User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Apologies, i should have been more concise. I am new to gun collecting All the parts are original with matching serial numbers, including the magazine. The only thing i did not check were the grips. The finish is original as far as i could tell and has about 60 to 70% remaining. I am looking for an honest, all matching pistol and am willing to spend up to $1500 for one in very good or better condition. thanks alf __________________ _ _ _ _ ______ _ _ _ _ Alfred Tan www.JapaneseSword.com

11-08-2004, 08:48 PM	#9
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,924 Thanks: 2,014 Thanked 4,518 Times in 2,087 Posts	Alf, first decide on the "era" you want. WW1, Weimar, or WW2, then you can decide how much you want to pay. Buy books, they'll save you a lot in cost later.... But also don't buy the first thing you see, it is far cheaper to look for a couple of months, then buy. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-08-2004, 11:29 PM	#10
alf User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Ed That is good advise and one that i give to people that want to start collecting Japanese swords (i run www.japanesesword.com). I should heed to it alf __________________ _ _ _ _ ______ _ _ _ _ Alfred Tan www.JapaneseSword.com

11-09-2004, 07:06 AM	#11
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,528 Times in 787 Posts	alf, I would recommend that you go to gunbroker.com auctionarms.com or gunsamerica.com and watch Luger bidding and sales for a few weeks. You will see alot of real transactions as well as have photos to reference should you have questions for this forum.

11-09-2004, 09:27 AM	#12
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	I know that a dear friend of this forum, and many other gun forums, "Kyrie" Ellison has a very nice 1940 Luger for sale in the FOR SALE forum ( of all places!) It is a very nice gun. $1100 __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-05-2004, 12:32 PM	#13
alf User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I found one 1939/40. Paid $750 off the classified. Hope i did OK on this. Now i need to find an Inglis HP... http://www.japanesesword.com/Images/...%20Pistols.htm __________________ _ _ _ _ ______ _ _ _ _ Alfred Tan www.JapaneseSword.com

12-05-2004, 07:33 PM	#14
lodicalif New User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: lodi,ca Posts: 2 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I wish to point out one thing which may prove relevant--Guns in Calif or Mass, because of the current laws involved, command a higher price just because big brother makes the transaction cost that much more

12-05-2004, 08:04 PM	#15
lugerlou User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Canada Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Alf Watch when you purchase your Inglis that you do not get hooked on the Chinese knockoff's that have been circulating in Canada these days, do not know if any have made their way south of the border but keep a wary eye if the gun looks to nice.

12-06-2004, 10:48 AM	#16
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Alf, I noticed n one of your photos that the rear slanted surface of the flange that covers the sear bar is serated or checkered... could you show this area in another photo? I haven't seen this on a Luger before... Has anyone else seen this seration/checkering before on any model Luger? What purpose would it serve? __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-07-2004, 01:12 AM	#17
alf User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	JS, This? Lou Thanks for the heads up, i will keep an eye out. Is this finish original? It looks like the Waffen marks and SN are blued over. $750 a fair price? thanks alf __________________ _ _ _ _ ______ _ _ _ _ Alfred Tan www.JapaneseSword.com

12-07-2004, 10:12 AM	#18
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,153 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,304 Times in 1,096 Posts	Yes, Alf... that is the area I was talking about. I have enlarged and enhanced your photo, and IMHO, the uneven bottom of the cut on the flange (Arrow A), combined with the fact that the surface of the serations are in the white and not blued, and the small scratch at the top (Arrow B) of the flange, leads me to believe that this was a post manufacture repair or modification to correct some damage to the exposed corner of the flange. Possibly the pistol was dropped on a hard (concrete?) surface which raised a burr that might have interfered with proper operation of the sear/sear spring. Unfortuately, the file that was used was the wrong type and it left the serations which are very similar, but larger than the serations on the rear surface of the front sight. A proper file would have left a relatively smooth surface, but would still be white, and not blue. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

12-07-2004, 08:55 PM	#19
alf User Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 14 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	JS The high parts of the serrations are white but the valleys are blue. Perhaps the damage happened before bluing. alf __________________ _ _ _ _ ______ _ _ _ _ Alfred Tan www.JapaneseSword.com