P08 DWM 1913 named - Page 2

phoenix · 12-17-2002, 06:47 PM

Gentleman, I have gone through lists of pre-WWI, WWI and Reichsheer Infantry Regiments. I did not come accross an 'Inf. Reg. 352'. I am not saying my records are complete as my area of research is Third Reich, however the only 352 Infantry Regiment I find is the one that formed part of the 246th Infantry Division, which was destroyed at Vitebsk in June 1944. Therefore if Lt. Bohn served in the WWII German Army one possibility is that this Luger was presented to him by his Regiment. What are your views?

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Steve

Bernard · 12-17-2002, 07:50 PM

My two cents on this pistol -

Up until WWI, officers purchased their own gear, including sidearms. Since this is a 1913 pistol, we are looking at a pre-WWI piece. I had read (can't remember the source) that officers on active duty, including reserve duty, could purchase 'military' pistols through the supply chain instead of 'commercial' pistols at the local gun shop. This would make standardization of arms and ammo less of a problem for the army.

With the start of hostilities, all military arms production went to the War Department; military pistols were probably no longer available for private purchase and the commercial supply dried up. From this time on, arms were issued as required. I cannot imagine even the German army turning down an officer applicant for lack of a personal sidearm when they were hard to come by.

The engraving style is of the 1900 - 1920 or so style, but "could" have been done after WWI and through WWII, but that is highly doubtful. The army certainly did not permit the marking of army property and we have not seen many, if any, government property arms with personal identification markings.

It also does not appear to be a presentation piece. The Germans could not be that brief - there would be some flowery language describing the reason, occasion, etc.

So, all in all, i believe it was a personal pistol engraved with the owner's name and unit at the time or shortly after purchase in the 1913 - 1914 time period.

Just my humble opinion.

George Anderson · 12-17-2002, 11:02 PM

Phoenix, Noll lists Infantry Regiment 352 as part of the 88th Infantry Division. "The Imperial German Regimental Marking" page 157.

Doubs · 12-17-2002, 11:08 PM

Bernard, your opinion of the pistol's history is as good as anyone else's and seems reasonable to me.

According to Jeff Noll's book "The Imperial German Regimental Marking" (Revised Edition) on page 157, the 352nd Infantry Regiment was part of the 88th Infantry Division. Perhaps someone has information about the role played by the 88th ID?

(I see that George beat me to it by 6 minutes!)

phoenix · 12-18-2002, 06:13 PM

George, Doubs

Thanks for your input. As I said I did not have adequate information regarding WWI German Army regiments and divisions. Next step is to try and trace this Lt. Bohn from officer lists. The two Bohns identified by Georg (Leutnant Bohn in the Field Artillery assigned to the Landwehrbizirk IV Berlin and another Lt Bohn listed in 34th regiment from Pommerania, Fusillier Regiment Queen Victoria of Sweden) are possible candidates but the units are different and that's from the 1912 Rangliste. I hope we can find our man....

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Steve

George Anderson · 03-19-2004, 05:49 PM

I am bringing this forward as it contributes to another exchange currently taking place on the subject of officer marked pistols.

12-17-2002, 06:47 PM	#21
phoenix User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 39 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Gentleman, I have gone through lists of pre-WWI, WWI and Reichsheer Infantry Regiments. I did not come accross an 'Inf. Reg. 352'. I am not saying my records are complete as my area of research is Third Reich, however the only 352 Infantry Regiment I find is the one that formed part of the 246th Infantry Division, which was destroyed at Vitebsk in June 1944. Therefore if Lt. Bohn served in the WWII German Army one possibility is that this Luger was presented to him by his Regiment. What are your views? <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> Steve __________________ Stephen A. Petroni www.fesac.eu

12-18-2002, 06:13 PM	#25
phoenix User Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Malta Posts: 39 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	George, Doubs Thanks for your input. As I said I did not have adequate information regarding WWI German Army regiments and divisions. Next step is to try and trace this Lt. Bohn from officer lists. The two Bohns identified by Georg (Leutnant Bohn in the Field Artillery assigned to the Landwehrbizirk IV Berlin and another Lt Bohn listed in 34th regiment from Pommerania, Fusillier Regiment Queen Victoria of Sweden) are possible candidates but the units are different and that's from the 1912 Rangliste. I hope we can find our man.... <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> Steve __________________ Stephen A. Petroni www.fesac.eu

12-17-2002, 07:50 PM	#22
Bernard User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: San Diego Posts: 35 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	My two cents on this pistol - Up until WWI, officers purchased their own gear, including sidearms. Since this is a 1913 pistol, we are looking at a pre-WWI piece. I had read (can't remember the source) that officers on active duty, including reserve duty, could purchase 'military' pistols through the supply chain instead of 'commercial' pistols at the local gun shop. This would make standardization of arms and ammo less of a problem for the army. With the start of hostilities, all military arms production went to the War Department; military pistols were probably no longer available for private purchase and the commercial supply dried up. From this time on, arms were issued as required. I cannot imagine even the German army turning down an officer applicant for lack of a personal sidearm when they were hard to come by. The engraving style is of the 1900 - 1920 or so style, but "could" have been done after WWI and through WWII, but that is highly doubtful. The army certainly did not permit the marking of army property and we have not seen many, if any, government property arms with personal identification markings. It also does not appear to be a presentation piece. The Germans could not be that brief - there would be some flowery language describing the reason, occasion, etc. So, all in all, i believe it was a personal pistol engraved with the owner's name and unit at the time or shortly after purchase in the 1913 - 1914 time period. Just my humble opinion.

12-17-2002, 11:02 PM	#23
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	Phoenix, Noll lists Infantry Regiment 352 as part of the 88th Infantry Division. "The Imperial German Regimental Marking" page 157.

12-17-2002, 11:08 PM	#24
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,742 Thanks: 826 Thanked 1,786 Times in 590 Posts	Bernard, your opinion of the pistol's history is as good as anyone else's and seems reasonable to me. According to Jeff Noll's book "The Imperial German Regimental Marking" (Revised Edition) on page 157, the 352nd Infantry Regiment was part of the 88th Infantry Division. Perhaps someone has information about the role played by the 88th ID? (I see that George beat me to it by 6 minutes!)

03-19-2004, 05:49 PM	#26
George Anderson Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: VA Posts: 3,592 Thanks: 1,773 Thanked 2,531 Times in 788 Posts	I am bringing this forward as it contributes to another exchange currently taking place on the subject of officer marked pistols.