Don't shoot?

[aasafetypilot]

A brand new member here - but been researching. I've spent years restoring valuable and (usually) rare antique vehicles. Every one was able to be driven, and in many cases, were driven to various concours shows. It was a judging requirement that the vehicles operate, in every aspect, as designed. I also have a number of not-so-rare, but fun, firearms that I shoot regularly.

I've been fascinated with Lugers for years, but never owned one. I've decided to take the plunge, probably with an excellent early S code Krieghoff. Simple question though - why all the recommendations against actually firing it? If treated gently and carefully, maintained properly, shot only rarely, and cleaned correctly, why the admonition that it "may lose thousands in value? My antique cars only retained values if used as designed (sparingly). Why not a firearm?

Thanks in advance!

[HerrKaiser]

Luger parts are numbered to the gun. If one numbered part breaks, it is usually no longer collectible and the price gets chopped in half (or more). There are stories abounding that someone gets a very nice collectible Luger and on the first shot, they break a part and ruin the gun. Your gun and your choice, I personally don’t like to have guns that won’t shoot and run a mag through them as a result.

[aasafetypilot]

Thanks for the reply - I understand, and I would only want a numbers matching gun. Lugers seem to be very "robust" though. In your experience, what would the most "fragile" part, or most likely to fail?

[HerrKaiser]

Most fragile parts:
-Firing pin
-Breechblock and extractor getting chipped or blown out by a pierced primer
-Anywhere in the toggle train due to a loose pin, tolerance, or weak mainspring
-“Tuning Fork” section of the upper receiver
-Ejector (as an imperial collector, Erfurt ejectors are marked and breaking one can harm collectibility, whereas DWM ejectors are blank and replaceable more like a spring. I am not sure how this is for Krieghoffs as I don’t collect them).

[ithacaartist]

IMHO, if your budget holds up under the purchase of "an excellent early S code Krieghoff," I suspect the price of a nice shooter on top of that probably wouldn't collapse it, either. I hope there's no law where you are that says you can't own more than one Luger!

Consider that anything is only "original" once, and that no more authentic Lugers will ever be made. Yes, a guy can do whatever he wants with whatever property he owns, but I would temper this notion with the idea that we're stewards of some things, preserving them for our progeny to experience. Presuming one of your heirs--say, a grandchild--has an interest in your Krieghoff, do you want them saying, "Yeah...all the numbers used to match...until Grandpa James shot it."?

Verifying its mechanical/functional viability by firing any gun can add to its value. But each time involves a risk/benefit assessment, whether a new Ruger .380, or a highly collectible Parabellum. Maybe a fair compromise for the latter would be to load and shoot 2 rounds, which would verify the gun's ability to fire twice, cycle once, and lock the action back on the last shot.

[aasafetypilot]

excellent replies both. Thanks

[gunbugs]

I will play the devil's advocate here, as I usually do when this subject comes up. I have about 30+ "collectible" Lugers. All of them are to be fired. I don't worry about what my progeny or the next generation thinks. I'll be dead. They have a hole in the end of the barrel. It's where the bullet comes out. The Germans weren't afraid to shoot them. You certainly risk parts breakage and loss of value when you fire one. Be willing to accept that risk. It's your gun. Do what you like. When I take one to the range, I typically replace the firing pin and extractor before I go with spares, so those aren't a factor in loss.

[aasafetypilot]

An equally valid (and interesting) perspective - thank you. Spares are a great idea.

[Mac Cat]

Shooter class Lugers are probably the best place to start, if you plan on shooting them.
Often, they only have one or two mismatched or replaced parts.

it's a well designed pistol and they usually hold up well for shooting if you don't use
over-powered ammunition. Most people recommend using a new Mec-Gar magazine,
because they work well and they are still in production ($40 new).

You will need to learn how the weapon functions and how to take it apart.
Field stripping the pistol is fairly easy with minimal tools. A loading tool is usually enough.

For ammunition, use a "target load" 115 gr FMJ from a reputable company,
(PPU and Winchester are reliable).

[aasafetypilot]

Thank you - I had also read somewhere that hollow points are to be avoided, use only round nose. Great suggestion on the magazine as well.

[Kiwi]

And if a part does break, get in touch with G.T. on this forum

[velodog455~]

Hollow points typically work well in Lugers. I think the warning about not using them stems from the fact that factory hollowpoints are usually more powerful than standard ammo and just put more stress on the whole P.08 system.

Many reloaders find that using hollow point bullets in conjunction with a reduced powder charge is ideal for Lugers. Better accuracy and less stress on the parts, or at least that has been my experience.

Mac Cat's suggestion to use Winchester White Box or PPU is good. Blazer Brass is also mildly loaded.

One last suggestion I would make is that German military 9mm ammo used a 123 grain FMJ bullet. However, 115 grain ammo shoots just as accurately and puts less stress on your pistol by virtue of the 115 grain bullet's lighter weight impacting the frame and breechblock with a smaller foot-pound energy strike. 90 grain 9mm ammo is even better in this respect but often exhibit reliability issues with the action cycling.
-Bob

[wlyon]

You own it your right to shoot it. However, we owners are custodians of these historic firearms for a very short time. I like to think of the next owner having an all matching firearm. ,It is up to us collectors to preserve these for the future owners. ,There are many shooter class luger for shooting. Just my opinion. Bill

[HughMungus]

Don’t do it . Buy a shooter .
I also think amnesty for political ruined examples is in order.
Such as Lugers deactivated for importation and such
If your filthy rich in Britian please stop ruining collectibles

[HughMungus]

Let me rephrase my last post thankyou
I vote for not destroying collectible items
Or just take a torch and grinder to it and upload mpegs.
Start making custom Lugers cut barrels down weld really long barrels blacksmith your own Frankenstein navy receivers

[aasafetypilot]

Originally Posted by kiwi

and if a part does break, get in touch with g.t. On this forum

g.t.?

[Kiwi]

Yes G.T. You are under the heading "New Collectors

take a look at the "Repairs and Restoration" heading.
G.T. does a lot of repairs, troubleshoots problems, and in cases can supply parts.
And is always a pleasure to talk to.