An Inquiring Mind Wants To Know ???

[calibrator]

When I got my 1st Luger in '09, I went out and joined this site and the Gunboard. Wish I'd have joined before buying my 1st, I never would have up with that overpriced 1920 Commercial. After a few years, I finally sold it to someone who didn't know any better either.

I've since sold 5 of the 6 I'd acquired including a Hugh Clark (?) Baby. I still have my Shooter Grade 1913 DWM. Met/or dealt with some good old boys here. G.T. has been to my house. Tom Austin (RIP) was a Great guy I spent times with at the Big Sandy Shoot. I forget his 1st name now, but Campbell was his last, he was noted for his Bluing formulas. I was to his house several times. I went to the Ralph's World of Lugers 4-5 times ! He seemed to like my GF, she had a "Marilyn" air about her. Never met Jerry Burney Face to face, but he did buy the rights to my Luger Bar Art for poster sales. Hey Jerry, maybe post those here again for the those who haven't seen them and need a LAUGH !

MY question here is; .... Why is there VERY little day to day traffic here anymore ??? Is it that ALL the Old Boys are dying off, and young guys can't afford collectible Lugers any more or what ???

[G.T.]

Hi Joe! Yes, I very much enjoyed my visit to your house! I also found you to be a very interesting fellow with some excellent skill sets, and an outstanding artist as well... Alas, lifes battles, health issues and just plain old age have kept us grounded, making any type of return trip hard to plan or execute!!
As for forum traffic, I too have noticed the slower pace, but I think you touched on the root of the problem with the older members passing on, and the younger members are quite young, and also very few? There is little to no middle age group with the same interests we find so dear on the forum. Alas, those that do have an interest are generally squeezed out by the shear cost, coupled with buying mistakes and miss-represented items! It's not too hard to see the hobby slowly disappearing!
I have said many times on this fourm, it is like family to me! Which ever way it goes, I'll be here until the end, probably mine... Best to all, til.....lat'r....GT....

[calibrator]

Hey G.T.,
Health issues, ... yeah, I got 'em as well at 72. Lucky I can walk unaided around the grocery store after standing 5-6 hours at work. As far as work and skill set, I'll drop these here for you and any interested parties to view. Wondering what I'd be when I finally grew up, ... I've been doing this type of think since 1985.

I've worked for Robert 10+ years. I'm his Drivetrain specialist, engines, transmissions, rear axles. I also make any needed extinct small part, you need it, Caveman can make it. All the cars you'll see here usually get a fresh engine, trans, rear gear set-up. My DNA is all over them;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEgIQBiJU9I

The above is not stock under the hood Carrillo pistons/rods, 5/16 stem Ferrea valves, ported and polished head, Extrude honed intake manifold, higher compression. 280 HP, OEM was under 200.

The Maserati in the above is before I did the complete engine, it's running there with 2 completely flat intake cam lobes. The vid below is after I went completely through it;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REDgzUTK8to&t=3s

[ithacaartist]

Gentlemen,
I've also noticed that site traffic has indeed dwindled in the past year or two, during which the number of memorial posts has picked up its pace.

I kinda miss Eric(cirelaw)'s posts. Although they could seem a little annoying in their rudimentary nature, they were questions the answers to which could help newbies to understand the hobby.

Nothing remains the same as change itself. I hope for their sake that newer blood will grab the baton and keep the experience alive when we are not.

[calibrator]

I DO miss Tom Austin. He was a Criminal Defense Lawyer in Austin Tx. I brokered the sale of a friend's 1928 and Ma Deuce to him through this site back when.

The biggest surprise was when I was taking said "friend" to court for a repeat DUI court date. There was Tom, standing next to the metal detector. NO previous notice that he was gonna be there that day. Good thing, because said "friend's" lawyer was a No-Show that day, and Tom addressed the Judge as the only defense.

Yeah, ... youth today know nothing about history, culture and nostalgia. Why invest in a collector Luger, when you can get a Glock 19 for 10th the cost.

[HerrKaiser]

Very similar story to you here OP. Other than that I am still one of the youngins GT talked about (29). Also to your question: yes, financial reality for my generation is incredibly bleak. They have run the numbers and even if we could magically make $100 in 2025 equal to $100 in 1950, we still only have 7% of the purchasing power with that $100 due to inflation of goods and services relative to the currency, which is itself inflated. I count myself lucky to even afford the gun hobby writ large

[calibrator]

I agree about the purchasing power of the Gen Zs today.

I work with 3 20-22 year olds in a 6 man shop. They make decent money if they have decent skills (up to $30+/hour). When I was their age in '72, I was a Teamster making $10+/hour, and thought I was well paid. Everyone here has Conservative, American Family values, so the conversation is often blunt and to the point. If you don't have a good sense of humor, and can take a joke (that goes both ways), this is NOT the place for you.

One thing I DO notice is that they have little if any grasp of history, especially when it comes to "Americana" type things like music, movies, TV shows, comic characters, especially world history like WWII, Korea, Viet Nam.

Growing up since '53 in my case, I was exposed to more of a GUN Culture through TV series/movies that revolved around WWII type guns on both sides of the conflict. And of course fell in love with them. Then came shows like "Man From U.N.C.L.E." that highlighted guns like Lugers, Broomhandles, P38, MP40s. Those images leave a lasting imprint on a young mind. And as such are things you aspire to one day own for yourself.

https://www.imfdb.org/wiki/The_Man_f....E._-_Season_1

$$$ do play a LARGE part in a collectors preference. When I was 21 you could buy great collector quality Lugers for $400-$500. I passed on them because I could buy a NIB Colt MK4 Series 70 for $175, and did.

Also, the guys I work with aren't drawn to the classic Muscle Cars or Hot Rods, They prefer 20 year old BMWs and Mercedes with manual trans and a wheel package. Definitely different cultural influences shaping their choices.

[kzullick]

I myself had stepped away for a few years, heart attack, kidney issues and my wife being in a horrific auto accident. I also had to sell all my lugers a few years back. I have have started to rebuild my collection. I currently have three, A 1920's Commercial, BYF 41, and a 1900 Commercial as well as other collectable WWI and WWII rifles and pistols.

[HerrKaiser]

I agree that the money does drive your collecting interests. Realities (along with, thankfully, a healthy dose of my historical interests), helped guide me to being a collector of Commercial and foreign contract Lugers as well as a toe in the Imperial sphere. If I was more into WW2 than the period of 1890-1920, I would have to only go after the Weimar re-works as the WW2 Lugers are out of realistically affordable hobbies for me.

[SegaDreamcast]

I think for the young guys it is a change in firearm taste. The last Luger I bought (Swiss 06/34) was a little over $2k. I have a few friends who are in to guns, I wouldn’t call them collectors, but they each reminded me how I could’ve gotten several modern AR platforms for the price of the one Luger. Their reasoning was modern guns are more practical. Maybe the Luger doesn’t have the same appeal on these modern generations as it did on previous ones?

[calibrator]

I clicked on your link to your website. Congrats on trying to keep the Luger dream alive.

Over a 2 yr period, I visited Ralph's home here in AZ at least 6 times, about 20 miles from my home. Do you know that he started his gun dealing as a sideline to being a paperboy, delivering newspapers at a young age? He was buying firearm collections from relatives of deceased individuals, many were WWII Vets. Did he get his leads from obituaries??? He told me he had an agreement with some guy who would fly a private plane into a local airport at given intervals, and buy up what he discovered in the mean time.

Ralph told me stories of how upset he was that collectors he had sold numerous high-end pistols to had died and the heirs sold them off for pennies on the dollar of actual value because they had no concept of what Daddy paid for them. Guess he was upset he didn't get there first.

My point is, ... most collectors are getting old. If they are not sharing the value of their collection with heirs, they will more easily get back in circulation, creating a new wave of questions from neophyte collectors.

Most people I know who have had garage sales say that the first thing they are often asked is; "are there any firearms you want gone today". I can see an 80 year old widow being offered a couple hundred $$$ for that "old useless firearm" and gladly taking it.

[SegaDreamcast]

Originally Posted by calibrator

I clicked on your link to your website. Congrats on trying to keep the Luger dream alive.

Thank you for the kind words and the recollections! Very neat to hear the origin story of Ralph, he was before my time (Im 37), however I see him and his brand as a pioneer in the hobby. I saw the domain name for sale around a year and a half ago and bought it. I am slowly adding to it when time permits. I have many gbs of files to add, plus I’ve been going through the German and Swiss Bundesarchivs and have found a lot of stuff.

[calibrator]

I think you SHOULD continue the actual history of the Luger and it's creators. There are many variants and fakes out there, many unanswered questions. Ralph likely had the greatest knowledge of the light and dark side of this issue.

If you are going to tell the story of Ralph, tell the true story or as much as you can get from those who had dealings with him. The few I had were an unwanted, ... but needed education.

Contact the "Old Timers", I'm sure each has a tale or two. I had to laugh at a post someone recently made about a "Black Widow Mauser", I'm sure it's still here at the top. The term that something was "Shattuck-Y" was coined.

Here ya go Chris, I found it, the author can take credit if he desires:

p.s. A black bakelite-bottom mag would make it 100% Shattuck-y.

[calibrator]

Hey Chris, ... after coming back and re-reading my post, I came up with this idea. You have shown an interest Lugers, ... and The W.O.L in particular. If your passion is as I suspect, .. you have what it takes to create what I envision. I'm aware of another young person on this Forum that could share that sense of responsibility to the Luger Community.

There are many great books already out there about the history and evolution of the Luger. There's something about that Toggle system that is sexy, ... there is no other pistol out there that incorporates it AFAIK. I also think that the Luger is sexy in the same way that Vampires are when portrayed in the Movies. In Cinema, ... the Luger always seems to find it's way into the hands of the Villian, ... or at least the Nazis.

The Luger is also (maybe questionably) the most boosted (counterfeited) firearm of our time. I think that compiling a volume of as many known counterfeit examples of the variants (or how to spot them) could be VERY helpful to collectors just starting on this journey. The "Navy" Luger is likely the most boosted variant out there. I suspect there are many out there, ... the owners most likely DON'T want to know, or want you to know the tell-tale signs. Someone on this site has compiled a list of known actuals and likely those that are not. I guess we could add the "Deaths Head" Luger to this list.

Yes, this info might be somewhere in the archives of this site, but is this knowledge widespread? You might find some folks here that are willing to privately share examples of what to look out for. A guide to spotting a boosted Luger in general would be a GREAT service to FNGs. I would have bought a copy if I could have before I bought my first Luger. How many people here bought a .30 cal Commercial and a box of 9mm ammo for their first go-round ???

[SegaDreamcast]

I have heard sooo many stories about Ralph and World of Lugers, both good and bad! The term Shattuck-y is definitely a new one! That would be a neat addition to the site, maybe stories of peoples experiences with WOL. I think another reason I find WOL fascinating is the amount of Lugers that went through there. Ralph must have handled or owned more lugers than anyone. I’ve seen photos of his showroom and there must have been thousands of them! I would love to be on that level, however I own a mere 20 or so.


The project does sound interesting! I have seen and heard of quite a few fakes! I have seen many discussions about fakes and find them fascinating. I have one myself that is pretty controversial, a 42 Mauser Banner with military proofs and also a sear safety, Eagle L on left side instead of right. I also have several projects going on, I like to be involved with the Luger community and I am pretty active on Lugerforums.

One of my first was a chromed Luger for $1500����. So I definitely understand the need for a new collectors guide.

[calibrator]

Hey Chris ,

WOL is obviously important to you, and deserves to be immortalized. One thing is inescapable, ... WOL IS Ralph, can't have one without the other. Your biggest hurdle now is "Attrition" !!!

I started this thread lamenting about the lack of traffic here anymore. My collector days are over. I still visit here because of people I've actually met as a result. The problem with getting older and having a LOT of Family and Friends is you better save up a tidy sum each year for expenses related to attending funerals. I'm fortunate in that I have no family, and can count truly trusted friends on the fingers of one hand, with one or two left over.

Telling the WOL story in a fresh way, ... as well as the Boosted Luger epic require input from people whose days are numbered. Each month likely sees the passing of another "Hall of Famer" in the Luger community. They pass on their Lugers, ... but not the history and colorful stories.

I can't speak of wild debauched weekends after gunshows, but I can about colorful characters in the classic car collector/dealer world. There's enough fodder to make a decent feature film about the shady side, booze, guns, hotel orgies, buying women from out-of-state pimps to later marry, cars driven through million $$$ mansions to make a point, ... etc. I know these stories from folks who were there, personal assistants, ... etc. Problem with this story is he still has children that might take offense, as his name is still associated some VERY large $$$ events each year.

My point is that people who can accurately relate this info are dying off, there is only one living person I know to attest to the above tale. It may be very hard to find folks ready to talk from this site. They don't enjoy talking about things that make them uncomfortable, that's why "Politics" is quickly crushed here.

[calibrator]

I enjoy writing these inclusions because they exercise my old brain, improve my thought process, wordsmithing and typing skills.

You only have pics of the brick-and mortar WOL, saying you've never been there, I have 6X+. It was just an ordinary looking house in an upscale subdivision. I usually brought my GF with me. In that era, she was VERY Marylin-esque in appearance and demeanor. Shoulda heard her sing "Happy Birthday Mister President". Ralph liked her, and seemed to talk more freely about "things", maybe in a boastful sort of way.

The glass cases on the walls above the shelving housed items that were of special interest. He claimed to be a Sheriffs Deputy at some point. There was a 10 gauge shotgun in the case that he claimed he used in the line-of-duty to dispatch a perp. There was a Luger that had the stylized initials "G/L" inscribed and attributed to (?). He also showed us what he claimed to be the "Million $$$ Luger", a prototype to the first production piece. That thing had a weird GLOW about it, almost spooky in fact.

Occasionally, he would leave the room and come back with things of interest for a small-time collector like myself. One guy that knew him better told me that the back room and garage were as unbelievable as the main showroom.

[SegaDreamcast]

Thats great! It has been tricky to find photos of the house and show room. A lot of the photos I do have were screengrabs from the History Channels "Tales of the gun".

I found captures of his website from the early 2000's and he had a page dedicated to a Million Dollar Luger. It was a .45 carbine that looked incredible.

[calibrator]

The "Million $$$ Luger" we saw was a pistol. Had all the hallmarks of an early Luger, but not quite.

https://www.google.com/search?q=happ...3oOVKt0WI,st:0

[Edward Tinker]

I check in every day, its a great site.

I've just been writing more on the laptop then on any luger site recently.