Help Identifying a "Blank: Luger?

DutchLuger · 10-11-2024, 05:03 PM

I collect Dutch Lugers and recently picked one up that I thought was Dutch based on the presence of a brass side plate. On closer inspection, I see no "RUST" marked safety, no "GELADEN" on the extractor, no acceptance marks, not even a manufacturer's identification. The style of the brass plate, the lettering font, and the letters themselves also don't appear to reflect Dutch usage. The only markings are a serial no 5 that appears in quite a few places. Does anyone have any thoughts on what this pistol might be all about?

Mac Cat · 10-11-2024, 05:21 PM

Can we see the left side, too?
Sideplate and sear.
Are there any other numbered parts ? (inside ?)

Very curious P.08, I think, but I need to see more details.

aldo35 · 10-11-2024, 08:05 PM

Maybe a lunch box special

gunnertwo · 10-11-2024, 08:16 PM

The brass unit plate looks nothing like other examples I've observed. Pretty sure it's been renumbered. The "5" on the rear of the toggle and upper frame looks new.

G2

Mac Cat · 10-11-2024, 09:30 PM

Ghost gun - post WW-1 ??

DutchLuger · 10-11-2024, 09:58 PM

Thanks, gents. I know this thing looks pretty suss, but I wonder where one would find all these unnumbered parts, and how much effort someone would go to to make a fake Dutch(?) Luger? I hate to admit that I don't even know what a sear is, but I will take some more photos of the internals in a day or two. I do know that the grips (which are tight as can be) are stamped with the number 5 on the inside surface as well.

DutchLuger · 10-11-2024, 10:01 PM

There's a 5 on the underside of the barrel, but no other proof markings. No date on the frame.

DutchLuger · 10-11-2024, 10:02 PM

Here's the top of the barrel.

DutchLuger · 10-11-2024, 10:03 PM

Or maybe here. I'm pretty new to this.

wlyon · 10-12-2024, 12:19 AM

I agree with Gunnertwo. I have never seen a Dutch plate like that one. Way to big. Bill

DutchLuger · 10-12-2024, 08:47 PM

Let me start by saying thank you to those who took the time to take a look at the earlier posting. I am a first time user of this forum and was amazed to see that people were so willing to look at this random pistol and give me their thoughts. I very much appreciate it.

I have no idea if this will help, but I did some disassembly and photographed a few internal details. The frame has significant corrosion pitting and seems out of step with the near flawless finish of most of the remaining parts. I am just baffled that someone might go to the trouble of creating a low serial number knockoff without trying for a more high value version.

The only aberrant numbers I see are on the housing for the firing pin (maybe a 68?). There are some random letters low on the magazine housing portion of the frame, and some symbols on the underside of the frame near the barrel.

Thank you all again for your input.

DutchLuger · 10-12-2024, 08:50 PM

Add-On Photo Set 1

DutchLuger · 10-12-2024, 08:52 PM

Add-On Photo Set 2.

DutchLuger · 10-12-2024, 08:53 PM

And just a couple more.

Mac Cat · 10-13-2024, 01:16 PM

Nice close-ups!
I'm impressed with how many of the parts are numbered.
Matching numbered grips !!! Wow, that is cool.

That detail tends to rule out a "ghost gun" or factory sneak.
But it's purpose is still unclear to me.

I don't think anyone was trying to fake a Dutch luger, either.

DutchLuger · 10-13-2024, 10:51 PM

Yeah, the only thing I've found with an off number is the firing pin. It has a 68 stamp. Kind of odd that it was replaced since the gun barely appears to have been fired. Just one more mystery as to what the purpose of this particular build was.

velodog455~ · 10-14-2024, 08:16 AM

A couple of curiosity questions...

On a genuine Dutch Luger, how is the brass plate affixed to the side of the pistol? Glue? Solder?

And, although the brass plate on this one is too big, was the same attachment method used as seen on a Dutch Luger?

Ron Wood · 10-14-2024, 01:08 PM

On an original Dutch it is solder. On this gun who knows?..maybe super glue?

Ben M. · 10-14-2024, 01:34 PM

...velcro... ?

lugerholsterrepair · 10-14-2024, 04:41 PM

On an original Dutch it is solder. On this gun who knows?..maybe super glue?

The very question I was about to ask!The corners of the plate on an original would be rounded...

10-11-2024, 05:03 PM	#1
DutchLuger User Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 11 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Help Identifying a "Blank: Luger? I collect Dutch Lugers and recently picked one up that I thought was Dutch based on the presence of a brass side plate. On closer inspection, I see no "RUST" marked safety, no "GELADEN" on the extractor, no acceptance marks, not even a manufacturer's identification. The style of the brass plate, the lettering font, and the letters themselves also don't appear to reflect Dutch usage. The only markings are a serial no 5 that appears in quite a few places. Does anyone have any thoughts on what this pistol might be all about? Attached Thumbnails

10-11-2024, 10:03 PM	#9
DutchLuger User Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 11 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Or maybe here. I'm pretty new to this. Attached Thumbnails

10-12-2024, 12:19 AM	#10
wlyon Lifer 2X Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: May 2005 Location: Somewhere in Montana Posts: 2,656 Thanks: 3,212 Thanked 2,620 Times in 972 Posts	I agree with Gunnertwo. I have never seen a Dutch plate like that one. Way to big. Bill __________________ Bill Lyon

10-12-2024, 08:47 PM	#11
DutchLuger User Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 11 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Additional Images Let me start by saying thank you to those who took the time to take a look at the earlier posting. I am a first time user of this forum and was amazed to see that people were so willing to look at this random pistol and give me their thoughts. I very much appreciate it. I have no idea if this will help, but I did some disassembly and photographed a few internal details. The frame has significant corrosion pitting and seems out of step with the near flawless finish of most of the remaining parts. I am just baffled that someone might go to the trouble of creating a low serial number knockoff without trying for a more high value version. The only aberrant numbers I see are on the housing for the firing pin (maybe a 68?). There are some random letters low on the magazine housing portion of the frame, and some symbols on the underside of the frame near the barrel. Thank you all again for your input. Attached Thumbnails

10-12-2024, 08:50 PM	#12
DutchLuger User Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 11 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Add-On Photo Set 1 Attached Thumbnails

10-11-2024, 05:21 PM	#2
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 751 Thanks: 2,158 Thanked 630 Times in 340 Posts	Can we see the left side, too? Sideplate and sear. Are there any other numbered parts ? (inside ?) Very curious P.08, I think, but I need to see more details.

10-11-2024, 08:05 PM	#3
aldo35 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Northern GA Posts: 390 Thanks: 2,298 Thanked 184 Times in 91 Posts	Maybe a lunch box special

10-11-2024, 08:16 PM	#4
gunnertwo User Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Nampa, Idaho Posts: 628 Thanks: 844 Thanked 942 Times in 368 Posts	The brass unit plate looks nothing like other examples I've observed. Pretty sure it's been renumbered. The "5" on the rear of the toggle and upper frame looks new. G2

10-11-2024, 09:30 PM	#5
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 751 Thanks: 2,158 Thanked 630 Times in 340 Posts	Ghost gun - post WW-1 ??

10-11-2024, 09:58 PM	#6
DutchLuger User Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 11 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Thanks, gents. I know this thing looks pretty suss, but I wonder where one would find all these unnumbered parts, and how much effort someone would go to to make a fake Dutch(?) Luger? I hate to admit that I don't even know what a sear is, but I will take some more photos of the internals in a day or two. I do know that the grips (which are tight as can be) are stamped with the number 5 on the inside surface as well.

10-11-2024, 10:01 PM	#7
DutchLuger User Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 11 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	There's a 5 on the underside of the barrel, but no other proof markings. No date on the frame.

10-11-2024, 10:02 PM	#8
DutchLuger User Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 11 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Here's the top of the barrel.

10-12-2024, 08:52 PM	#13
DutchLuger User Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 11 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Add-On Photo Set 2. Attached Thumbnails

10-12-2024, 08:53 PM	#14
DutchLuger User Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 11 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	And just a couple more. Attached Thumbnails

10-13-2024, 01:16 PM	#15
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 751 Thanks: 2,158 Thanked 630 Times in 340 Posts	Nice close-ups! I'm impressed with how many of the parts are numbered. Matching numbered grips !!! Wow, that is cool. That detail tends to rule out a "ghost gun" or factory sneak. But it's purpose is still unclear to me. I don't think anyone was trying to fake a Dutch luger, either.

10-13-2024, 10:51 PM	#16
DutchLuger User Join Date: Oct 2024 Posts: 11 Thanks: 5 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts	Yeah, the only thing I've found with an off number is the firing pin. It has a 68 stamp. Kind of odd that it was replaced since the gun barely appears to have been fired. Just one more mystery as to what the purpose of this particular build was.

10-14-2024, 08:16 AM	#17
velodog455~ User Join Date: Aug 2023 Posts: 88 Thanks: 22 Thanked 70 Times in 43 Posts	A couple of curiosity questions... On a genuine Dutch Luger, how is the brass plate affixed to the side of the pistol? Glue? Solder? And, although the brass plate on this one is too big, was the same attachment method used as seen on a Dutch Luger?

10-14-2024, 01:08 PM	#18
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	On an original Dutch it is solder. On this gun who knows?..maybe super glue? __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-14-2024, 01:34 PM	#19
Ben M. User Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Retired to Naples, FL. Posts: 499 Thanks: 96 Thanked 146 Times in 91 Posts	...velcro... ?

10-14-2024, 04:41 PM	#20
lugerholsterrepair Moderator Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Arizona/Colorado Posts: 7,775 Thanks: 4,995 Thanked 3,133 Times in 1,439 Posts	On an original Dutch it is solder. On this gun who knows?..maybe super glue? The very question I was about to ask!The corners of the plate on an original would be rounded... __________________ Jerry Burney 11491 S. Guadalupe Drive Yuma AZ 85367-6182 lugerholsterrepair@earthlink.net 928 342-7583 (CO & AZ) Year Round 719 207-3331 (cell) "For those who Fight For It, Life has a flavor the protected will never know."