The First Test Trials Luger reunited with the Ideal Stock

[Mauser 712]

Originally Posted by m1903a3

Then there's the question of how an Ordnance Shell and Flame not designed until 1936 somehow authenticates a pistol, grip or stock allegedly 30 years older??

https://goordnance.army.mil/history/shell_flame.html

Hi Mike,

With reference to the link you provide above, the Ordnance Shell and Flame was used by European and US armies, including at the time when this M1900 AE Luger pistol was made in Germany and delivered to the USA. For example, a sentence on the web page says "Despite its sole ownership by the Ordnance Branch, multiple designs of the Shell and Flame existed", so it is not unreasonable to say that the design observed on the pistol and the iron of the Ideal stock is suspicious for that period.

Furthermore, it is not a proof mark, so its 'lazy' horizontal position on the pistol is not critical, instead to make it larger and visible to an Evaluation Board since the marking (inside the Ideal grips) 'U.S. Government' is no where on the pistol. The old-style markings on the pistol and stock/holster did not have to match perfectly, and knowledgeable collectors should be able to think and recognize the purpose of these markings instead of negatively questioning the originality of the pistol and the discovered Ideal stock when both are consistent. Most often fakers screw up in this area without knowing the significance of old natural patina and the aging of leather and wood. It is a 'science' and I don't think these marks and number were applied 30+ years later on these two items which had been separated.

However, thanks for the information that you provided which gave me some additional information/knowledge.

Cheers,
Albert