"Whatsit" ?

[Kri 1942]

7.65 mm long cartridge, French, for pistol 1935 A and S ...

Joël

[schutzen-jager]

also used in U.S. Pederson device -

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by schutzen-jager

also used in U.S. Pederson device -

No.
The French long is not the same, close but no cigar.

Schutzen,
I sit corrected, My 10th ed. of Cartridges OTW, makes no mention of the .30-18, at least that I can find, only the
7.65mm MAS(French).

I can see how a .30 x 18mm can be fired in the French long chamber, but not conversely.
The Length of the French case is given as 19.8mm.

Hence my statement that they are not the same, close.

[schutzen-jager]

Originally Posted by DonVoigt

No.
The French long is not the same, close but no cigar.

totally interchangeable as per cartridges of the world old edition -

The 7.65×20mm Longue (also known as 7.65mm French Longue, 7.65 mm Long, 7.65mm MAS, 7.65×20mm, 7.65L and .30-18 Auto for use in the Pedersen Device) was a straight, rimless cartridge used in the French Modèle 1935 pistol, as well as the MAS-38 submachine gun.



Description
The cartridge was developed for the United States and secretly produced in quantity too late for its intended use during World War I. The United States scrapped the weapons built for the cartridge between the world wars.[1] France adopted weapons for the cartridge and those weapons saw combat use; so the cartridge is best known by its French name.

The French military were introduced to the cartridge when the US demonstrated the Pedersen device after the end of World War I in Le Mans and again when John Browning exhibited a carbine in the same caliber in 1920. The US .30 Pedersen cartridge (Auto Pistol Ball Cartridge caliber .30 Model of 1918 or .30-18 Automatic) used in the Pedersen device was the basis for the 7.65×20mm Longue. The cartridge dimensions were identical, although Pedersen device cartridges were loaded with a slightly heavier 80 grains (5.2 g) bullet which achieved a velocity of 1,300 feet (400 m) per second in the longer barrel of M1903 Springfield rifles.[1]

Remington Arms produced 65 million cartridges for the Pedersen device between 1918 and 1920.[1] French 7.65×20mm Longue ammunition was manufactured in quantity from approximately 1935 to 1960. In 2019, Steinel Ammunition began producing 7.65X20mm Longue,[2] making new ammunition available again.[3]

[ithacaartist]

Originally Posted by schutzen-jager

totally interchangeable as per cartridges of the world old edition -

The 7.65×20mm Longue (also known as 7.65mm French Longue, 7.65 mm Long, 7.65mm MAS, 7.65×20mm, 7.65L and .30-18 Auto for use in the Pedersen Device) was a straight, rimless cartridge used in the French Modèle 1935 pistol, as well as the MAS-38 submachine gun.



Description
The cartridge was developed for the United States and secretly produced in quantity too late for its intended use during World War I. The United States scrapped the weapons built for the cartridge between the world wars.[1] France adopted weapons for the cartridge and those weapons saw combat use; so the cartridge is best known by its French name.

The French military were introduced to the cartridge when the US demonstrated the Pedersen device after the end of World War I in Le Mans and again when John Browning exhibited a carbine in the same caliber in 1920. The US .30 Pedersen cartridge (Auto Pistol Ball Cartridge caliber .30 Model of 1918 or .30-18 Automatic) used in the Pedersen device was the basis for the 7.65×20mm Longue. The cartridge dimensions were identical, although Pedersen device cartridges were loaded with a slightly heavier 80 grains (5.2 g) bullet which achieved a velocity of 1,300 feet (400 m) per second in the longer barrel of M1903 Springfield rifles.[1]

Remington Arms produced 65 million cartridges for the Pedersen device between 1918 and 1920.[1] French 7.65×20mm Longue ammunition was manufactured in quantity from approximately 1935 to 1960. In 2019, Steinel Ammunition began producing 7.65X20mm Longue,[2] making new ammunition available again.[3]

No danged wonder I couldn't ID this. Pretty obscure now...

Anyway, 63 rounds up for grabs, plus one primed case. Pay the shipping and it's yours!

[DonVoigt]

Originally Posted by schutzen-jager

totally interchangeable as per cartridges of the world old edition -

The 7.65×20mm Longue (also known as 7.65mm French Longue, 7.65 mm Long, 7.65mm MAS, 7.65×20mm, 7.65L and .30-18 Auto for use in the Pedersen Device) was a straight, rimless cartridge used in the French Modèle 1935 pistol, as well as the MAS-38 submachine gun.



Description
The cartridge was developed for the United States and secretly produced in quantity too late for its intended use during World War I. The United States scrapped the weapons built for the cartridge between the world wars.[1] France adopted weapons for the cartridge and those weapons saw combat use; so the cartridge is best known by its French name.

The French military were introduced to the cartridge when the US demonstrated the Pedersen device after the end of World War I in Le Mans and again when John Browning exhibited a carbine in the same caliber in 1920. The US .30 Pedersen cartridge (Auto Pistol Ball Cartridge caliber .30 Model of 1918 or .30-18 Automatic) used in the Pedersen device was the basis for the 7.65×20mm Longue. The cartridge dimensions were identical, although Pedersen device cartridges were loaded with a slightly heavier 80 grains (5.2 g) bullet which achieved a velocity of 1,300 feet (400 m) per second in the longer barrel of M1903 Springfield rifles.[1]

Remington Arms produced 65 million cartridges for the Pedersen device between 1918 and 1920.[1] French 7.65×20mm Longue ammunition was manufactured in quantity from approximately 1935 to 1960. In 2019, Steinel Ammunition began producing 7.65X20mm Longue,[2] making new ammunition available again.[3]

I fail to see how a 7.65 x 20( actually 19.8) can be called identical with a cartridge called .30 x 18 ?

I have no doubt that the Pedersen cartridge was the "basis" for the French .32 long(7,65 x 19.8).

What am I missing ? or is the .30 x 18 in error?

[schutzen-jager]

i did not state that they were identical , but that they are fully interchangeable - personally used both in my French pistols back in the 60's - splitting hairs on case length , most chambers are not cut to such exact tolerances , especially military ones -