My Luger --41 byf - Page 2

Marvin · 11-09-2002, 07:19 AM

Integralaction,

After you gave the explanation of the .38 Spl. rounds having the rim and groove machined, it makes sense. After the war, all these former soldiers had Lugers, but 9mmP ammo was difficult to come by, and when found, it was expensive. It sounds like someone made some rounds for your Luger from the .38 Spl cases and this abled your father-in-law to shoot the pistol. I have not checked the specs on the cases, but sounds logical to make a 9mmP from a .38 Spl case. Keep these as part of the pistol and family history.

Marvin

Edward Tinker · 11-09-2002, 09:40 AM

I always knew that 8 MM Nambu (Japanese pistol) had ammo problems, but hadn't thought of 9MM, since you can buy old boxes of ammunition. So that is very interesting and the rounds add to the history of the Luger! [img]smile.gif[/img]

Doubs · 11-09-2002, 10:30 PM

[quote]Originally posted by Edward Tinker:
<strong>I always knew that 8 MM Nambu (Japanese pistol) had ammo problems, but hadn't thought of 9MM, since you can buy old boxes of ammunition. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Back about 1956/57 when my father and I bought our first Luger together, it was more difficult finding the cartridges than it was finding the pistol. Pop finally found a box of commercial 9mm but we then purchased it in 100 round lots of surplus non-corrosive 9mm from "Ye Olde Hunter" for $5.00/100. It was war-time Winchester. They also offered surplus corrosive ammo at $4.00/100.

LP08 · 11-10-2002, 10:14 PM

The wood grips, now 62 years old, are the most fragile component of your luger. If you shoot it, put on a pair of inexpensive modern grips and save the two originals'condition. New grips can be had for $25 a pair and original grips, numbered to your gun, cost $80 when separated from the gun and are worth $100's if damaged and your gun loses its originality. Enjoy your luger. Your holster sounds like a P38 holster. A lot of luger holsters were modified to fit P38s but ocassionally a luger finds its way into a P38 holster, too. The cleaning kit used with the K98 rifle was generic for servicing small arms including luger pistols. It is, therefore, the proper cleaning kit for your luger.

integralaction · 11-29-2002, 11:05 PM

Got pictures now. Spent most of the day with camera and software. My son took most of the pictures, think he did a very nice job.

First, here is an overall view of everything we discussed.

Detail views:

More photos next post.

integralaction · 11-29-2002, 11:12 PM

More luger details:

integralaction · 11-29-2002, 11:20 PM

Some of the ammo:

The one on the left is the WW2 9mmP, the one on the right is the "9mm" manufactured from 38 special case and cast bullets.

The head stamps of the two.

And a view that shows a casting line near the top part of the bullet.

Finally, the printed list inside the cover of the "ammo box"

Enjoy. <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" />

Comments? <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

AGE · 11-29-2002, 11:40 PM

Nice gun, but I'm no expert on gun values. I probably get taken a lot.

That's some .38 special ammo that you have. I'm sure it wouldn't work in a gun chambered for .38 special anymore. Wow! 9 mm. is a whole lot cheaper than .38 now (and maybe always has been). Anyway, the guy that modified these cartridges went to a lot of trouble and evidently did a nice job. I would relegate these to storage if I were you and go get some of the Walmart Winchester bulk packs of 9 mm - $10.96 for 100 rounds.

Edward Tinker · 11-30-2002, 12:50 AM

Great pictures, no comments except I loved seeing them!

[img]smile.gif[/img]

Frank · 11-30-2002, 09:07 AM

Hello Again Integral, I just love your group photo!! The cleaning "stuff" is for a Mauser Rifle, the holster is for a P.38, the magazine is for a 1939 S/42 Luger!! That's an eclectic grouping. I also think your "Work Thing" Box is great!!! I have never seen a tool box like that, congrats!!

From your photos of the pistol, it appears to be about 90 to 95%, maybe on the high side of that range. If that is the case, you would have to pay about $900 to $1100 to buy it from a dealer.

Looks like a very nice honest Luger!!!!

<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

integralaction · 11-30-2002, 12:57 PM

Frank, thanks for the summary. This has been a lot of fun.

<img src="graemlins/offtopic.gif" border="0" alt="[offtopic]" />
I've started translating the tool box contents and it appears to be some specialty tools for engine work. There are four rings, like the Audi symbol on the bottom of the box. Here is the list typed out followed by translations so far. Anyone got any ideas? I used AltaVista Bablefish translation to get this far. (My 'take' on the literal translation in parenthesis).

Inhaltsverzeichnis
Dieser Kasten "Werkzeug" enthalt:
Stck. Bezeichnung Teil-Nr.

Mutterschlussel 17 u. 14 SW
Schraubenzieher
Rundzange?f?nd SG-Ring
Kombinations?ange
Rohrsteckschlussel 17 u. 21 SW
Knebel dazu 10 h8 x 120
Rohrsteckschlussel 9 u. 10 SW
Knebel dazu 6 h8 x 90
Mutterschlussel 9 u. 10 SW
Zundeinstellschlussel 6/6 SW
Abziehvorrichtung f. d. Vent.-Scheibe
Mutterschlussel 6 u. 8 SW
Schraubenzieher kl.
Stahlbander f. Kolbenringmontage
Waschpinsel
But??e z. Reinigung der Zundkerze
Bosch Kontaktfelle
Putz??pp???? ?5 x 45 cm
Eim?????????e
(ai? D?m Ventilatorgehause des motors
befes??gt)

Translation:
Table of contents
This box "tool" contain:
Ea.. Designation part NR.
Mutterschlussel 17 and 14 SW (Nut wrench?)
Screwdriver (Screwdriver!)
Rundzange?f??d SG ring (Snap ring pliers?)
Kombinations?ange (Combination square?)
Rohrsteckschlussel 17 and 21 SW (Pipe/tubing wrench? Box end wrench?)
toggles in addition 10 h8 x 120
(Wing nuts? Compression fittings?)
Rohrsteckschlussel 9 and 10 SW (Pipe wrench?)
toggles in addition 6 h8 x 90 (Wing nuts?)
Mutterschlussel 9 and 10 SW (Nut wrench?)
Zundeinstellschlussel 6/6 SW (??Install? Wrench?)
puller f. D vent disk (Puller for vent disk?)
Mutterschlussel 6 and 8 SW (Nut wrench?)
screwdrivers kl. (Screwdrivers!)
Stahlbander f. piston ring assembly (3 Ring compression bands?)
wash brush (Cleaning brush)
But??e z. cleaning of the Zundkerze
(kerze is candle)
Bosch contact contacts (feeler gauges?)
Putz??pp???? x 45 cm (?)
Eim?????????e (ai? D?m Ventilatorgehause of the engine befes??gt) (?)

Edward Tinker · 11-30-2002, 04:24 PM

Hey Tac!!

Was hoping you'd see and answer, great translation (I assume its great cuz I can't do it, [img]biggrin.gif[/img] )

Thanks and have a festive Hanukah too!

integralaction · 11-30-2002, 07:43 PM

tacfoley,

Great information, I really appreciate it! I'll be updating my word document when I get a chance. If there is anything I'm still unsure about I will be grateful for more help.

What part of the UK are you from? Spent some time in N.E. Lincolnshire and W. Sussex. May get back again from time to time.

Thanks,

integralaction · 12-02-2002, 10:59 PM

Mr tac,

I am unsure of the meaning of the "steamed" reference. In any case I am delighted with the breadth of knowledge on tap here. [img]smile.gif[/img] Thanks again for the translations.

Unfortunatly I've not spent any time in Cambridgeshire. Your estate on the brook sounds lovely, though it must be difficult to keep up with the taxes using pillow sales. Happy Hannuka.

Edward Tinker · 12-03-2002, 05:22 PM

ahhhh, humour, I am taken by surprise at your wit sir!

[img]wink.gif[/img]

11-09-2002, 09:40 AM	#22
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,995 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	I always knew that 8 MM Nambu (Japanese pistol) had ammo problems, but hadn't thought of 9MM, since you can buy old boxes of ammunition. So that is very interesting and the rounds add to the history of the Luger! [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-29-2002, 11:05 PM	#25
integralaction User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Got pictures now. Spent most of the day with camera and software. My son took most of the pictures, think he did a very nice job. First, here is an overall view of everything we discussed. Detail views: More photos next post. __________________ integralaction

11-29-2002, 11:12 PM	#26
integralaction User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	More luger details: __________________ integralaction

11-29-2002, 11:20 PM	#27
integralaction User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Some of the ammo: The one on the left is the WW2 9mmP, the one on the right is the "9mm" manufactured from 38 special case and cast bullets. The head stamps of the two. And a view that shows a casting line near the top part of the bullet. Finally, the printed list inside the cover of the "ammo box" Enjoy. <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> Comments? <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> __________________ integralaction

11-29-2002, 11:40 PM	#28
AGE User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Florida Posts: 597 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Nice gun, but I'm no expert on gun values. I probably get taken a lot. That's some .38 special ammo that you have. I'm sure it wouldn't work in a gun chambered for .38 special anymore. Wow! 9 mm. is a whole lot cheaper than .38 now (and maybe always has been). Anyway, the guy that modified these cartridges went to a lot of trouble and evidently did a nice job. I would relegate these to storage if I were you and go get some of the Walmart Winchester bulk packs of 9 mm - $10.96 for 100 rounds. __________________ Al Eggers (AGE) NRA Life Member

11-09-2002, 07:19 AM	#21
Marvin User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Upstate S.C. Posts: 1,132 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Integralaction, After you gave the explanation of the .38 Spl. rounds having the rim and groove machined, it makes sense. After the war, all these former soldiers had Lugers, but 9mmP ammo was difficult to come by, and when found, it was expensive. It sounds like someone made some rounds for your Luger from the .38 Spl cases and this abled your father-in-law to shoot the pistol. I have not checked the specs on the cases, but sounds logical to make a 9mmP from a .38 Spl case. Keep these as part of the pistol and family history. Marvin

11-09-2002, 10:30 PM	#23
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,673 Thanks: 773 Thanked 1,620 Times in 528 Posts	[quote]Originally posted by Edward Tinker: <strong>I always knew that 8 MM Nambu (Japanese pistol) had ammo problems, but hadn't thought of 9MM, since you can buy old boxes of ammunition. </strong><hr></blockquote> Back about 1956/57 when my father and I bought our first Luger together, it was more difficult finding the cartridges than it was finding the pistol. Pop finally found a box of commercial 9mm but we then purchased it in 100 round lots of surplus non-corrosive 9mm from "Ye Olde Hunter" for $5.00/100. It was war-time Winchester. They also offered surplus corrosive ammo at $4.00/100.

11-10-2002, 10:14 PM	#24
LP08 User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Colorado Posts: 71 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The wood grips, now 62 years old, are the most fragile component of your luger. If you shoot it, put on a pair of inexpensive modern grips and save the two originals'condition. New grips can be had for $25 a pair and original grips, numbered to your gun, cost $80 when separated from the gun and are worth $100's if damaged and your gun loses its originality. Enjoy your luger. Your holster sounds like a P38 holster. A lot of luger holsters were modified to fit P38s but ocassionally a luger finds its way into a P38 holster, too. The cleaning kit used with the K98 rifle was generic for servicing small arms including luger pistols. It is, therefore, the proper cleaning kit for your luger.

11-30-2002, 12:50 AM	#29
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,995 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	Great pictures, no comments except I loved seeing them! [img]smile.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-30-2002, 09:07 AM	#30
Frank RIP Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Hot & Dry PHX, AZ Posts: 2,078 Thanks: 24 Thanked 163 Times in 87 Posts	Hello Again Integral, I just love your group photo!! The cleaning "stuff" is for a Mauser Rifle, the holster is for a P.38, the magazine is for a 1939 S/42 Luger!! That's an eclectic grouping. I also think your "Work Thing" Box is great!!! I have never seen a tool box like that, congrats!! From your photos of the pistol, it appears to be about 90 to 95%, maybe on the high side of that range. If that is the case, you would have to pay about $900 to $1100 to buy it from a dealer. Looks like a very nice honest Luger!!!! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />

11-30-2002, 12:57 PM	#31
integralaction User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Frank, thanks for the summary. This has been a lot of fun. <img src="graemlins/offtopic.gif" border="0" alt="[offtopic]" /> I've started translating the tool box contents and it appears to be some specialty tools for engine work. There are four rings, like the Audi symbol on the bottom of the box. Here is the list typed out followed by translations so far. Anyone got any ideas? I used AltaVista Bablefish translation to get this far. (My 'take' on the literal translation in parenthesis). Inhaltsverzeichnis Dieser Kasten "Werkzeug" enthalt: Stck. Bezeichnung Teil-Nr. Mutterschlussel 17 u. 14 SW Schraubenzieher Rundzange?f?nd SG-Ring Kombinations?ange Rohrsteckschlussel 17 u. 21 SW Knebel dazu 10 h8 x 120 Rohrsteckschlussel 9 u. 10 SW Knebel dazu 6 h8 x 90 Mutterschlussel 9 u. 10 SW Zundeinstellschlussel 6/6 SW Abziehvorrichtung f. d. Vent.-Scheibe Mutterschlussel 6 u. 8 SW Schraubenzieher kl. Stahlbander f. Kolbenringmontage Waschpinsel But??e z. Reinigung der Zundkerze Bosch Kontaktfelle Putz??pp???? ?5 x 45 cm Eim?????????e (ai? D?m Ventilatorgehause des motors befes??gt) Translation: Table of contents This box "tool" contain: Ea.. Designation part NR. Mutterschlussel 17 and 14 SW (Nut wrench?) Screwdriver (Screwdriver!) Rundzange?f??d SG ring (Snap ring pliers?) Kombinations?ange (Combination square?) Rohrsteckschlussel 17 and 21 SW (Pipe/tubing wrench? Box end wrench?) toggles in addition 10 h8 x 120 (Wing nuts? Compression fittings?) Rohrsteckschlussel 9 and 10 SW (Pipe wrench?) toggles in addition 6 h8 x 90 (Wing nuts?) Mutterschlussel 9 and 10 SW (Nut wrench?) Zundeinstellschlussel 6/6 SW (??Install? Wrench?) puller f. D vent disk (Puller for vent disk?) Mutterschlussel 6 and 8 SW (Nut wrench?) screwdrivers kl. (Screwdrivers!) Stahlbander f. piston ring assembly (3 Ring compression bands?) wash brush (Cleaning brush) But??e z. cleaning of the Zundkerze (kerze is candle) Bosch contact contacts (feeler gauges?) Putz??pp???? x 45 cm (?) Eim?????????e (ai? D?m Ventilatorgehause of the engine befes??gt) (?) __________________ integralaction

11-30-2002, 04:24 PM	#32
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,995 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	Hey Tac!! Was hoping you'd see and answer, great translation (I assume its great cuz I can't do it, [img]biggrin.gif[/img] ) Thanks and have a festive Hanukah too! __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

11-30-2002, 07:43 PM	#33
integralaction User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	tacfoley, Great information, I really appreciate it! I'll be updating my word document when I get a chance. If there is anything I'm still unsure about I will be grateful for more help. What part of the UK are you from? Spent some time in N.E. Lincolnshire and W. Sussex. May get back again from time to time. Thanks, __________________ integralaction

12-02-2002, 10:59 PM	#34
integralaction User Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 22 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Mr tac, I am unsure of the meaning of the "steamed" reference. In any case I am delighted with the breadth of knowledge on tap here. [img]smile.gif[/img] Thanks again for the translations. Unfortunatly I've not spent any time in Cambridgeshire. Your estate on the brook sounds lovely, though it must be difficult to keep up with the taxes using pillow sales. Happy Hannuka. __________________ integralaction

12-03-2002, 05:22 PM	#35
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,916 Thanks: 1,995 Thanked 4,507 Times in 2,081 Posts	ahhhh, humour, I am taken by surprise at your wit sir! [img]wink.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV