G Date Proofs???

[kidvett]

Good evening,

The barrel/ receiver proofs on the 2 G Dates barrelled receivers show different proofs.The E/211 is the early one ( a barrelled shooter top ) the 2nd one is the pistol ( see PIC ) Anyone has precisions on when the change took place and why??

Thanks

kidvett

[MauserLugers]

Hi,
There are six different army acceptance marks on the G-dates. Here is the order that you will find them: B90/S91, B90/S92, W154/S92, 211/S92, 63/S92, and 63/63. Roughly, the B90/S91 and B90/S92 are found in the "a" block, the W154/S92 is found in the "a,b,c,& d" blocks, the 211/S92 and 63/S92 are found in the "d & e" blocks and the 63/63 in the "e & f" blocks. There is overlap between each transition.

It is interesting to see the S/42 on the frame next to the takedown knob on the right side. This is very unusual.

[kidvett]

MauserLuger,

Yes I agree the S/42 is unsual....ARMORER REPLACEMENT FRAME

Interesting info on the frame ( PICS will be posted tonight ):

NO alpha letter on Ser no. front of frame
Double strike on last digit of Ser no.
Misaligned numbers on Ser no.
Back of frame shows SE 63 Proof

Very interesting...

kidvett <img border="0" alt="[byebye]" title="" src="graemlins/wave.gif" />

[kidvett]

Hello again,

As this frame is a mystery, I did some PICS....This pistol is believed to be an all original but unsual S/42 marked frame makes it unclear...notice crudly stamped serial no??? SE63 Waffenampt on rear frame...Help appreciated <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

kidvett

[Frank]

Hi Marc,

First there shouldn't be any no suffix G-Dates! From the markings on the frame it was completed after the bulk of the 1936, S/42's because of the inspector stamp changed to SE/63.

If the side of the receiver has a serial number 6435, the frame was stamped to match.

I would guess an Armorer stamped it, or someone has messed with it. If you know the story behind the pistol, you may be able to decide which!

[kidvett]

Hello Frank,

Thanks for the help. History of this pistol is an original Vet brought back....So I believe it to be original.

So the FRAME would be an Armorer Replacement??
I do not have much documentation on Replacement Frames for Mauser P-08?? Was it a common procedure?? Would the small S/42 on the right front ( near takedown latch ) indicate a replacement frame with a blank front for the Armorer to stamp the Serial number

A very confused kidvett

[Frank]

Marc, I don't have data on frames, but there are other pieces that are Armorer Replacements that can be documented. I have seen Lugers with badly beaten up trigger guards, that frames easily could have been replaced by an Armorer. The S/42 marking, along with the acceptance marks would certainly lead one to believe it was a factory replacement.

The bothersome part is the sloppy work with the serial number. That is not typical of the craftsmanship of experienced armorers!

While you may have a historical pistol, it is going to just have to be an interesting piece. Tough to claim it as a collectable G-Date <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

[AGE]

Is this pistol legal with that sloppy frame serial number? Look at the overstamped 5, maybe this number has been changed.

[kidvett]

Hi Frank,

I know it's not the best G date around....but until I can upgrade it.....scarce those G dates around here....

AGE,

YES this pistol is LEGAL Do you want the Registration Certificate Number so you can check with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police? <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" />

I could also give you my personnal info as a Registered Collector with the Quebec Provincial Police? <img border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" title="" src="graemlins/cussing.gif" />

...just my way of letting you know that your latest questionning about the legality of my pistol is <img border="0" alt="[offtopic]" title="" src="graemlins/offtopic.gif" />

kidvett

[Frank]

Hey Marc, since there were only about 50,000 G-Dates made, and that was 1935, one has to wonder how many of these are in existance today. Jan Still has broken down these Lugers into 2 main classes. Those with at least one eagle acceptance mark and those without an acceptance eagle. Then, as Bill points out there are really six different acceptance mark combinations. I don't blame you for scooping that one up

I did the same thing with a badly beat up first variation K-Date simply because you just don't run into these every day!!

Good Hunting <img border="0" alt="[cheers]" title="" src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" />

[AGE]

Kidvett,

Sorry, I didn't mean to ask a sensitive question or doubt your integrity. Just a concern that I had.

[John Sabato]

Kidvett and AGE, This is just my humble opinion, but after a close look at an enlargement of the photo showing the front of frame... I believe that the last digit is not an overstamp. but actually a double-stamp caused by a bounce of the stamping die that was held in the production workers hand... I don't think this is a questionable serial number...



Just my

[Frank]

John, I totally agree, except they forgot the alpha part of the serial. There are no G-Dates with a no suffix serial that I am aware of!!

Besides it's a pretty sloppy job, even for a hammer mechanic!!

[John Sabato]

I think the suffix is probably there, but just doesn't show in the cropping of the photo... How about the suffix Kidvett? Does this apparent "armorers replacement" frame have a suffix?

[MauserLugers]

Hi,
In my opinion the frame is an honest armorer's replacement. I would think the replacement frame would not have a letter suffix on it, but it could have a serial number. I would think it would be possible to have it either way, with the serial number or without a serial number. Actually, I'd prefer to have no serial number if I had a choice. The frame is from a later date. We know this by the straight eagle 63 acceptance mark. That dates it from mid 1937 through 1939. When it was replaced they more than likely would not have put the letter suffix on, just the serial number as they were not worried about where they were in production, or matching everything up for fit and assembly at this point, only repairing the pistol and getting it back into the field.

[kidvett]

Hello again,

AGE: sorry that I took your comments so hard ( I'm on the Graveyard shift this week )
Friends again....

John: Yes the 5 is a double stamp and there is no suffix on the frame...

Frank & MauserLugers: It is a replacement frame but is how this pistol came back from WWII...so I'll be shopping for an update to this G date...

Thanks to everyone on this topic <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

kidvett

[AGE]

Kidvett,

No hard feelings. Sorry I upset you. Just asked a question since I have a Frankenluger police gun with a lot of force fit numbers. I don't particularly like that fact, but it has a great barrel, a light trigger and shoots unbelievably small groups slightly above point of aim.

[Silvereagle29]

I think the S/42 on the frame makes the frame numbers correct regardless of size or shape and more correct without a letter suffix. The pistol obviously had some repair work done along the way. The B-90 S-92 is the most rare of the G-S/42 acceptance marks. You will only find these pistols between serial number 5700a and 8400a. Not exact, but very close. The Drooped eagle 211 and S-92 acceptance marks will be found between 700d and 6000d plus or minus a few. The straight wing eagle might be a depot repair mark. Really cannot see the detail. As a standard acceptance mark the "Straight wing Eagle" did not appear as a standard acceptance mark until 1937 although authorized in 1935. What is the serial number and letter suffix of the DE-211 S-92 G-date. Good Luck

[kidvett]

The G date pistol is the one with the B-90 S-92 and would be Ser no 6435a ( with that Armorer's frame ) The other PIC with the DE-211 S-92 Receiver Proofs is ( SADLY! ) just a Mismatch shooter...

kidvett