Unproofed Receiver

kidvett · 03-24-2004, 02:04 PM

Hello,

Receiver of a 1918 date DWM ( M block ) pistol displaying a sear safety. Post War assembled from left over parts ??

MARK

Vlim · 03-26-2004, 10:07 AM

Whoa,

This is a late one, indeed. DWM quit producing on the 20th of December, 1918. Apart from a small skeleton crew all workers were laid off and nothing was produced between december 1918 and spring 1919.

Starting from 1919 they produced small quantities of weapons for peacetime purposes again. I guess this is one of them. This postwar production was not as much intended for profit but in order to secure the ownership of the production facilities under the Versailles treaty of 28th june 1919.

If the machinery was not used, it had to be destroyed so they tried producing everything from pushbuttons to drills and typewriters to keep their machine parks from being impounded and scrapped.

kidvett · 03-26-2004, 11:05 AM

Hi Gerben,

This one would then be produced after that Dec 20th production halt ?? Is it possible to establish the month of production with the pistol's Suffix letter ( M in this case )

I know that this estimate can be made on Mauser P08s & P38s......

Interesting fact is that the left grip panel has been cut ( and chipped since

) for a Mag Safety on the forward upper part...Pistol is not modified for the Mag Safety but has a Sear Safety...

Weimar Police ( Ed, PoliceLuger...?? ) produced in between the stop of WWI production & before the ``1920 `` Property Stamp on weapons

MARK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Edward Tinker · 03-26-2004, 11:10 AM

Mark, are there any proofs/acceptance on the left? Or signs there were any? I have at least one with no markings on the right, more of a "commercial" feel to them.

Pictures of the left and right?

Grips were probably just taken from a mag safety gun? You see lots of sear safety, but less mag safeties.

Sear safeties were added in 1933, so it could be a Weimar rework, which can mean only adding the sear safety or could be a complete rework, hard to tell many times.
Ed

kidvett · 03-27-2004, 11:49 AM

Ed,

Here's some photos of the left receiver side & under barrel. Curiously the barrel has no Military acceptance markings & no bore diameter stampings. Close look at the pistol does not reveal any rework or Weimar Era Proofs.

MARK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Edward Tinker · 03-27-2004, 12:13 PM

Mark, my gut feeling is that it is a rework, but the obvious use (which is always a good sign to me of authenticity), shows a rework from long ago?

Under the grips are there assorted alphabit letters stamped around (I've seen this on other guns, but my weimars have seen it more often?)...

I think your first impression is more true, left over parts, but this is simply a WAG.

Ed

kidvett · 03-27-2004, 12:19 PM

Hello Ed,

Grip panels removal revealed: NO LETTERS!!

MARK

Vlim · 03-28-2004, 06:29 AM

Mark,

The sources I have claim that the December 1918 production stopped somewhere in the 'L' region,

If they were still planning to chuck out guns in December, the M-range seems to fit nicely.

I believe this gun was made in late december 1918 and was diverted to a non-military source as a result of the end of WW1 and DWM's efforts to keep their production lines. It's unlikely that it made it to market before june 1919.

Since it has no 1920 property mark my best guess is that it was sold to a private person.

Dwight Gruber · 03-28-2004, 01:34 PM

Still's "Imperial Lugers" shows 1918 DWM reported in the m, n,r, and s blocks. No l block guns reported to him as of that publication.

--Dwight

Vlim · 03-28-2004, 01:56 PM

Dwight,

Does Jan Still's book mention German army acceptance marks on those m/n/r/s blocks? Would be nice to see where exactly the delivery to the Imperial army ended. It would clarify some questions I have regarding 1918-1919 production.

(I should get his books anyway

)

Dwight Gruber · 03-29-2004, 02:32 AM

Gerben,

Still makes no mention of them in the text, I suspect that if there were anomalies he would have noted them. There are no 1918 DWM pictured in those serial blocks in either "Imperial Lugers"
or "Weimar Lugers".

--Dwight

Vlim · 03-29-2004, 09:17 AM

Dwight,

That's a pity. It's always nice to compare information from the producers to information obtained from individual guns.

I wonder if anyone has background info about 1918-1920 civil unrest in the Berlin area. DWM themselves say very, very little about it.

03-24-2004, 02:04 PM	#1
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Unproofed Receiver Hello, Receiver of a 1918 date DWM ( M block ) pistol displaying a sear safety. Post War assembled from left over parts ?? MARK

03-26-2004, 11:10 AM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,962 Thanks: 2,063 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	Mark, are there any proofs/acceptance on the left? Or signs there were any? I have at least one with no markings on the right, more of a "commercial" feel to them. Pictures of the left and right? Grips were probably just taken from a mag safety gun? You see lots of sear safety, but less mag safeties. Sear safeties were added in 1933, so it could be a Weimar rework, which can mean only adding the sear safety or could be a complete rework, hard to tell many times. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-27-2004, 12:13 PM	#6
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,962 Thanks: 2,063 Thanked 4,592 Times in 2,114 Posts	Mark, my gut feeling is that it is a rework, but the obvious use (which is always a good sign to me of authenticity), shows a rework from long ago? Under the grips are there assorted alphabit letters stamped around (I've seen this on other guns, but my weimars have seen it more often?)... I think your first impression is more true, left over parts, but this is simply a WAG. Ed __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

03-26-2004, 10:07 AM	#2
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Whoa, This is a late one, indeed. DWM quit producing on the 20th of December, 1918. Apart from a small skeleton crew all workers were laid off and nothing was produced between december 1918 and spring 1919. Starting from 1919 they produced small quantities of weapons for peacetime purposes again. I guess this is one of them. This postwar production was not as much intended for profit but in order to secure the ownership of the production facilities under the Versailles treaty of 28th june 1919. If the machinery was not used, it had to be destroyed so they tried producing everything from pushbuttons to drills and typewriters to keep their machine parks from being impounded and scrapped.

03-26-2004, 11:05 AM	#3
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Hi Gerben, This one would then be produced after that Dec 20th production halt ?? Is it possible to establish the month of production with the pistol's Suffix letter ( M in this case ) I know that this estimate can be made on Mauser P08s & P38s...... Interesting fact is that the left grip panel has been cut ( and chipped since ) for a Mag Safety on the forward upper part...Pistol is not modified for the Mag Safety but has a Sear Safety... Weimar Police ( Ed, PoliceLuger...?? ) produced in between the stop of WWI production & before the ``1920 `` Property Stamp on weapons MARK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

03-27-2004, 11:49 AM	#5
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Ed, Here's some photos of the left receiver side & under barrel. Curiously the barrel has no Military acceptance markings & no bore diameter stampings. Close look at the pistol does not reveal any rework or Weimar Era Proofs. MARK <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

03-27-2004, 12:19 PM	#7
kidvett User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Montreal, Quebec Posts: 584 Thanks: 0 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts	Hello Ed, Grip panels removal revealed: NO LETTERS!! MARK

03-28-2004, 06:29 AM	#8
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Mark, The sources I have claim that the December 1918 production stopped somewhere in the 'L' region, If they were still planning to chuck out guns in December, the M-range seems to fit nicely. I believe this gun was made in late december 1918 and was diverted to a non-military source as a result of the end of WW1 and DWM's efforts to keep their production lines. It's unlikely that it made it to market before june 1919. Since it has no 1920 property mark my best guess is that it was sold to a private person.

03-28-2004, 01:34 PM	#9
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Still's "Imperial Lugers" shows 1918 DWM reported in the m, n,r, and s blocks. No l block guns reported to him as of that publication. --Dwight

03-28-2004, 01:56 PM	#10
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Dwight, Does Jan Still's book mention German army acceptance marks on those m/n/r/s blocks? Would be nice to see where exactly the delivery to the Imperial army ended. It would clarify some questions I have regarding 1918-1919 production. (I should get his books anyway )

03-29-2004, 02:32 AM	#11
Dwight Gruber User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 3,908 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1,330 Times in 435 Posts	Gerben, Still makes no mention of them in the text, I suspect that if there were anomalies he would have noted them. There are no 1918 DWM pictured in those serial blocks in either "Imperial Lugers" or "Weimar Lugers". --Dwight

03-29-2004, 09:17 AM	#12
Vlim Moderator Lifetime LugerForum Patron Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Europe Posts: 5,053 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 3,990 Times in 1,205 Posts	Dwight, That's a pity. It's always nice to compare information from the producers to information obtained from individual guns. I wonder if anyone has background info about 1918-1920 civil unrest in the Berlin area. DWM themselves say very, very little about it.