Seeking advice about possible RC P08

CPT Hello · 02-14-2017, 12:13 PM

Hello Luger Enthusiasts,

I am surveying the local market, on the hunt for my first P08. Got together with a fellow who had a few for sale, one of which I've linked detailed pictures to at the flickr link below:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/571379...57649817481893

Although I am not looking for an immaculate beauty queen or a rarity for my first Luger, I could tell a stark difference between the matching byf 42 he also showed me (which was not for sale) and the pistol at the link above. Not just in appearance, but in parts "fitment" and the feel of the gun in the hand. No doubt this was owed at least in part to the matching/non-matching nature of the two weapons.

Could you gentlemen help me address these questions I have?
1a. Does the X in front of the serial on the left side of the frame denote this as a Russian capture gun, or is it P08 compiled from spare parts?
1b. If it is an RC, in such condition as the exterior pictures show, is a fair price somewhere between 700-800 depending on the bore or other factors?
2. As a first Luger, would such a purchase (if it is a RC) be more of a novelty ("and in this moment in history, the Soviets got a few P08s..."), rather than something that would be a candidate for a range date/shooter once in awhile?

I thank you in advance for any information you all can share and am eager to hear any other bits of advice or insight you can give regarding this P08 (even if that advice is, "Stay far away from it!").

John Sabato · 02-14-2017, 12:34 PM

The answers to the two questions in 1a. is YES to both questions. But there is no way to determine if the "parts" were assembled by the Russians, or if the upper receiver from a RC weapon was used to assemble this gun at a later date. No provenance of RC except for the upper receiver.

The price is at least 100 to 200 dollars too high IMHO for this parts gun. You can find others that are nicer for the price being asked.

The grips are poorly fitted reproductions. The right grip is particularly not fitted very well.

This would only be a "shooter" grade gun in my opinion.

I myself would not offer more than $600 for this gun, and if the answer is 'no'... then "Stay far away from it!"). You can spend the asking price for a nicer gun. Check the For Sale ads here on the forum...

mrerick · 02-14-2017, 01:13 PM

A higher end shooter that is mechanically excellent would run about $1150 today (for example a later Mauser made Luger). Watch for one made from a complete upper and a different gun's complete lower that was fitted up properly by an experienced Luger gunsmith.

A properly fitted RC Luger would be $800-900 if in excellent condition. I would expect mostly matching numbers and mostly original parts.

Alternately, watch for something that is all matching and mechanically excellent but that has original finish with issues. Not particularly pretty, but an excellent and sound shooter.

rhuff · 02-14-2017, 02:39 PM

I agree with the statements above. There are a lot of mismatched parts on this Luger, and no one knows who put them there/fitted them. For a first Luger, at that price, I would likely suggest that you walk away. IF you are mechanically inclined, and love a challenge, this MIGHT be o.k. for you. A good Luger shooter has to be just that......a reliable shooter that you can enjoy and learn from. A lot of ???? on this one. IMHO

Mac Cat · 02-14-2017, 02:50 PM

The thing is, someone (Russian or East Germans) messed up this other wise nice pistol. It has a lot of issues - the acceptance stamps appear to have been vandalized and there are vice teeth impressions on the barrel (probably removed at one time).

Stay away

CPT Hello · 02-14-2017, 02:57 PM

Gentlemen,

Thank you all for the sound advice and insight.
John, 10-4 on the price. Thanks for mentioning that the grips are repros and poorly fitted; no wonder it felt so wretched in my palm! I will keep an eye out on the for sale section as well.
Mrerick, thanks for a good breakdown on what price points to keep in mind. There is a military collectibles shop near me and a phone call revealed they have about a dozen Lugers for sale. I'll keep in mind the prices you outlined when I take a look there.
And rhuff, yes a lot of questions raised by the hodgepodge of parts. The current owner didn't seem to know any history of how it came to be either. As I'm not looking for a challenge with my first Luger, I'll take all of your advice together and keep looking.
Many thanks again! I'm enjoying the learning experience and rich history Luger-dom has brought so far.

CPT Hello · 02-14-2017, 03:04 PM

Mac Cat,

Yikes! Didn't notice vice marks. May I ask how you can tell the acceptance stamps have been vandalized? Thanks for the encouragement to stay away: I will!

RShaw · 02-14-2017, 03:29 PM

Hi CPT,

You're doing very well so far, even though it is hard to walk away. Better that than going ahead for the asking price and running into multiple problems later. You are also observant- the wrong feel in your hand, and difference between the matching byf42 not for sale and this piece. Very helpful to be observant in the Curios and Relics world!!

I notice also that the right grip is indeed very badly fitted, (wide gap netween top edge of grip and bottom edge of frame) and in addition, that the left grip appears to have the classic "million dollar chip" under the safety lever (top rear of the grip) and another chip out of the front leading edge up under the corner between rear of trigger and bottom of side plate.

We're all learning. You're in a good place here.
WOnderful that there's a military collectibles shop nearby... and with a DOZEN Lugers?? Wow!!
You'll find the right gun!! Your very first Luger is special in a unique way.
Looking forward to hearing more of your story!

John Sabato · 02-14-2017, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPT Hello

Mac Cat,

May I ask how you can tell the acceptance stamps have been vandalized? Thanks for the encouragement to stay away...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/571379...7649817481893/

In the photo behind this link, you can see that each of the acceptance inspection marks on the right side of the upper receiver have been struck multiple times with a metal punch to at least partially obliterate their original appearance. This may have been done by the Russian captors during their "rebuild" process...

CPT Hello · 02-14-2017, 06:10 PM

RShaw,

Thanks for your thoughts and the recommendation to pass. That's exactly what I'll be doing. Had not noticed the "million dollar chip" (this seems to be the 1911's "idiot scratch" equivalent), thanks for pointing that out.
I am excited to check out the shop I mentioned and hopeful there will be a P08 there for me. If so, I'll be sure to post a few photos here in celebration.

John,

Thanks for educating me regarding those vandalized stamps. To my untrained eye I had thought they were pitting or negligent abuse marks. Seems a strange way to "rebuild" indeed.
Many thanks to you all again, this community is obviously a great treasure trove of knowledge.

02-14-2017, 12:13 PM	#1
CPT Hello User Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: The West Posts: 6 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Seeking advice about possible RC P08 Hello Luger Enthusiasts, I am surveying the local market, on the hunt for my first P08. Got together with a fellow who had a few for sale, one of which I've linked detailed pictures to at the flickr link below: https://www.flickr.com/photos/571379...57649817481893 Although I am not looking for an immaculate beauty queen or a rarity for my first Luger, I could tell a stark difference between the matching byf 42 he also showed me (which was not for sale) and the pistol at the link above. Not just in appearance, but in parts "fitment" and the feel of the gun in the hand. No doubt this was owed at least in part to the matching/non-matching nature of the two weapons. Could you gentlemen help me address these questions I have? 1a. Does the X in front of the serial on the left side of the frame denote this as a Russian capture gun, or is it P08 compiled from spare parts? 1b. If it is an RC, in such condition as the exterior pictures show, is a fair price somewhere between 700-800 depending on the bore or other factors? 2. As a first Luger, would such a purchase (if it is a RC) be more of a novelty ("and in this moment in history, the Soviets got a few P08s..."), rather than something that would be a candidate for a range date/shooter once in awhile? I thank you in advance for any information you all can share and am eager to hear any other bits of advice or insight you can give regarding this P08 (even if that advice is, "Stay far away from it!").

02-14-2017, 12:34 PM	#2
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	The answers to the two questions in 1a. is YES to both questions. But there is no way to determine if the "parts" were assembled by the Russians, or if the upper receiver from a RC weapon was used to assemble this gun at a later date. No provenance of RC except for the upper receiver. The price is at least 100 to 200 dollars too high IMHO for this parts gun. You can find others that are nicer for the price being asked. The grips are poorly fitted reproductions. The right grip is particularly not fitted very well. This would only be a "shooter" grade gun in my opinion. I myself would not offer more than $600 for this gun, and if the answer is 'no'... then "Stay far away from it!"). You can spend the asking price for a nicer gun. Check the For Sale ads here on the forum... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

02-14-2017, 01:13 PM	#3
mrerick Super Moderator - Patron LugerForum Life Patron Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Eastern North Carolina, USA Posts: 3,920 Thanks: 1,377 Thanked 3,135 Times in 1,518 Posts	A higher end shooter that is mechanically excellent would run about $1150 today (for example a later Mauser made Luger). Watch for one made from a complete upper and a different gun's complete lower that was fitted up properly by an experienced Luger gunsmith. A properly fitted RC Luger would be $800-900 if in excellent condition. I would expect mostly matching numbers and mostly original parts. Alternately, watch for something that is all matching and mechanically excellent but that has original finish with issues. Not particularly pretty, but an excellent and sound shooter. __________________ Igitur si vis pacem, para bellum - - Therefore if you want peace, prepare for war.

02-14-2017, 03:29 PM	#8
RShaw User Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Venlo, the Netherlands Posts: 350 Thanks: 160 Thanked 170 Times in 90 Posts	Hi CPT, You're doing very well so far, even though it is hard to walk away. Better that than going ahead for the asking price and running into multiple problems later. You are also observant- the wrong feel in your hand, and difference between the matching byf42 not for sale and this piece. Very helpful to be observant in the Curios and Relics world!! I notice also that the right grip is indeed very badly fitted, (wide gap netween top edge of grip and bottom edge of frame) and in addition, that the left grip appears to have the classic "million dollar chip" under the safety lever (top rear of the grip) and another chip out of the front leading edge up under the corner between rear of trigger and bottom of side plate. We're all learning. You're in a good place here. WOnderful that there's a military collectibles shop nearby... and with a DOZEN Lugers?? Wow!! You'll find the right gun!! Your very first Luger is special in a unique way. Looking forward to hearing more of your story! __________________ Enjoying any firearm is like staying happily married- take her out on a regular basis, treat her with respect and pay attention to proper maintenance. Looking for magazine no. 7097 Venlo, the Netherlands- RShaw

02-14-2017, 02:39 PM	#4
rhuff Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Az. Posts: 2,308 Thanks: 2,737 Thanked 993 Times in 729 Posts	I agree with the statements above. There are a lot of mismatched parts on this Luger, and no one knows who put them there/fitted them. For a first Luger, at that price, I would likely suggest that you walk away. IF you are mechanically inclined, and love a challenge, this MIGHT be o.k. for you. A good Luger shooter has to be just that......a reliable shooter that you can enjoy and learn from. A lot of ???? on this one. IMHO

02-14-2017, 02:50 PM	#5
Mac Cat Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Austin, Texas Posts: 751 Thanks: 2,158 Thanked 630 Times in 340 Posts	The thing is, someone (Russian or East Germans) messed up this other wise nice pistol. It has a lot of issues - the acceptance stamps appear to have been vandalized and there are vice teeth impressions on the barrel (probably removed at one time). Stay away

02-14-2017, 02:57 PM	#6
CPT Hello User Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: The West Posts: 6 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Gentlemen, Thank you all for the sound advice and insight. John, 10-4 on the price. Thanks for mentioning that the grips are repros and poorly fitted; no wonder it felt so wretched in my palm! I will keep an eye out on the for sale section as well. Mrerick, thanks for a good breakdown on what price points to keep in mind. There is a military collectibles shop near me and a phone call revealed they have about a dozen Lugers for sale. I'll keep in mind the prices you outlined when I take a look there. And rhuff, yes a lot of questions raised by the hodgepodge of parts. The current owner didn't seem to know any history of how it came to be either. As I'm not looking for a challenge with my first Luger, I'll take all of your advice together and keep looking. Many thanks again! I'm enjoying the learning experience and rich history Luger-dom has brought so far.

02-14-2017, 03:04 PM	#7
CPT Hello User Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: The West Posts: 6 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Mac Cat, Yikes! Didn't notice vice marks. May I ask how you can tell the acceptance stamps have been vandalized? Thanks for the encouragement to stay away: I will!

02-14-2017, 06:10 PM	#10
CPT Hello User Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: The West Posts: 6 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	RShaw, Thanks for your thoughts and the recommendation to pass. That's exactly what I'll be doing. Had not noticed the "million dollar chip" (this seems to be the 1911's "idiot scratch" equivalent), thanks for pointing that out. I am excited to check out the shop I mentioned and hopeful there will be a P08 there for me. If so, I'll be sure to post a few photos here in celebration. John, Thanks for educating me regarding those vandalized stamps. To my untrained eye I had thought they were pitting or negligent abuse marks. Seems a strange way to "rebuild" indeed. Many thanks to you all again, this community is obviously a great treasure trove of knowledge.