What is it?

guns3545 · 08-27-2016, 12:23 PM

Mike,

Welcome to the Forum.

As previously stated pictures are essential for anyone to provide definitive answers to your question.

First, the easy part: In the 20s, DWM did manufacture two variations of Lugers for resale by Krieghoff. Outside of the name Krieghoff on the back frame or sideframe, there was nothing actually manufactured by Krieghoff. The guns were a neat add-on to their sporting arms business.

However, these guns had to conform with the International Control Commission's restrictions on German arms manufacturers. This affected barrel lengths and calibers. But both 7.65 and 9mm are observed.

There was a third variation illustrated on page 314 to which you refer. I have never seen the pistol and outside of this one example, I am not aware of any other existant. So??? And yes, I know that Gibson acknowledges the possibility of DWM building such a variation. But then why regress on the logo when they actually started to build P.08s for the LW themselves?

All three of these variations had commercial proofing and walnut grip panels. All were serialized with 4 digits and an i-suffix. That's it, no "P" on these resale variations.

Sadly, the gun you have described does not appear to fall into any of these three categories. That's why we need pictures.

But here are a couple of things to consider:

1. The Luftwaffe did not exist until 1933/34, maybe only in 1935. Thus there was no Luftwaffenamt stamp, i.e. the eagle 2 when DWM was making these guns.
2. Plastic/bakelite grips did not come into use until the mid-1930s. Krieghoff started using them in 1936.

There is one last possibility to explain this piece and I hesitate to mention it. But..HK did rework thousands of guns of literally every manufacturer. They did not re-serialize them but added various parts in the rework process. A few of these reworks have been observed with LWaA2 proofs on parts.

Hope this helps. Pictures!!! Without them, it is really difficult to comment with any authority. Could be that only a detailed examination of the piece itself will reveal its secrets.

John

Dwight Gruber · 09-07-2016, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guns3545

...First, the easy part: In the 20s, DWM did manufacture two variations of Lugers for resale by Krieghoff...

John,

I am only aware of the "Krieghoff SUHL" back-frame stamped variation. Could you describe the other?

--Dwight

08-27-2016, 12:23 PM	#1
guns3545 Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 438 Thanks: 661 Thanked 493 Times in 219 Posts	Mike, Welcome to the Forum. As previously stated pictures are essential for anyone to provide definitive answers to your question. First, the easy part: In the 20s, DWM did manufacture two variations of Lugers for resale by Krieghoff. Outside of the name Krieghoff on the back frame or sideframe, there was nothing actually manufactured by Krieghoff. The guns were a neat add-on to their sporting arms business. However, these guns had to conform with the International Control Commission's restrictions on German arms manufacturers. This affected barrel lengths and calibers. But both 7.65 and 9mm are observed. There was a third variation illustrated on page 314 to which you refer. I have never seen the pistol and outside of this one example, I am not aware of any other existant. So??? And yes, I know that Gibson acknowledges the possibility of DWM building such a variation. But then why regress on the logo when they actually started to build P.08s for the LW themselves? All three of these variations had commercial proofing and walnut grip panels. All were serialized with 4 digits and an i-suffix. That's it, no "P" on these resale variations. Sadly, the gun you have described does not appear to fall into any of these three categories. That's why we need pictures. But here are a couple of things to consider: 1. The Luftwaffe did not exist until 1933/34, maybe only in 1935. Thus there was no Luftwaffenamt stamp, i.e. the eagle 2 when DWM was making these guns. 2. Plastic/bakelite grips did not come into use until the mid-1930s. Krieghoff started using them in 1936. There is one last possibility to explain this piece and I hesitate to mention it. But..HK did rework thousands of guns of literally every manufacturer. They did not re-serialize them but added various parts in the rework process. A few of these reworks have been observed with LWaA2 proofs on parts. Hope this helps. Pictures!!! Without them, it is really difficult to comment with any authority. Could be that only a detailed examination of the piece itself will reveal its secrets. John Last edited by guns3545; 08-28-2016 at 09:31 AM. Reason: Add Information