1964 Auction & Prices Realized

Arizona Slim · 03-13-2016, 04:07 PM

Shortly after serving my time in the military there was a local firearm auction that I attended. Here is a partial listing with prices realized, thought this might be interesting.

Savage over&Under M2x .22-410 $45.00
Winchester Lever M1892 38-40 37.50
Winchester auto 1905 .35 S.I. 35.00
Winchester pump M97 12ga. 75.00
Winchester lever M94 .30-30 48.00
Winchester lever M1873 .22 short 45.00
Remington pump M1912 .22 Rem Spl. 24.00
Winchester Lever 1895 7.62mm 62.50
Remington auto M241 .22 L.R. 52.00
Winchester pump M12 16 gauge 80.00
Rem bolt w/w/k scope 721 .270 85.00
Springfield sporter bolt 1903 30.06 72.00
Winchester auto m1905 .35 57.00
Springfield bolt M1903 30-06 62.00
Winchester pump M42 .410 47.00
Winchester lever M1873 44-40 52.50
Winchester auto m63 .22 l.r. 60.00
Browning auto M Sweet 16 16ga 50.00
Beretta m948 .22 l.r. 27.50
LUGER ARTILLERY 9mm 87.50
LUGER ARTILLERY 1917 9mm 56.00
Llama 9mm 35.00
S&W M&P 38 s&w 32.00
Colt DA M1902 .45 65.00
Colt Pol. Positive 385 pl. 27.00
Colt square back M1851 36 Navy $125.00

I won three or four of these including one of the Lugers but wish I knew then what I know now.

Lon

DonVoigt · 03-13-2016, 06:14 PM

Seems they didn't think much of lugers in 1964!

I believe the market has improved.

alvin · 03-13-2016, 06:37 PM

I bet even lower was Japanese rifles. Nice one was $15. Average one was virtually free. Some collectors accumulated 1,000+ Japanese rifles. How much is a nice Japanese rifle nowadays?

rolandtg · 03-13-2016, 07:45 PM

According to this inflation calculator http://www.dollartimes.com/calculators/inflation.htm

$1.00 in 1964 had the same buying power as $7.65 in 2016.

Annual inflation over this period was 3.99%.

alvin · 03-13-2016, 08:52 PM

In this rate, regular 1917 LP08 by inflation rate should be $56 x 7.65 = $428.40, putting population increased 100% since then (so number of collectors also increased 100%), $428.40 x 2 = $856.80. The gap between this number and current market is big, what's not been put into the formula yet?

I bet there are still $856.80 LP08s today, but it has to be a pure shooter. Retro back, was that $56 LP08 in the list sold as a pure shooter??

If not, say, if that LP08 is a nice collector item, the only way to interpret this price gap being wealth indeed increased over these years. At absolutely lower income, people don't have much money left after covering living cost. Whatever left decided non-daily-essential items price, including LP08. Since real income increased since 1964, the price of collectible item could increase higher than inflation, not bound to inflation rate, due to its supply is pretty much fixed.

Is this sustainable in next 30 years? Probably these will be more related with inflation rate. That's my feeling, due to the price is not low anymore. But if real wealth indeed increases again in next generation, C&R could increase higher than inflation rate again. So, depends.

alvin · 03-14-2016, 08:49 AM

Collecting guns is still a hobby, hard to treat it as investment. I bet buying blue chip ticker symbols such as "PM" and "KO" are better investment. Those are low risk too, liquidation is never being a problem, and they pay dividend. But no fun.

Sergio Natali · 03-14-2016, 11:39 AM

I agree, collecting firearms is not, and probably has never been an investment, also because the "liquidation" of our beloved guns may be quite a big problem, still I agree it's fun.

roadkill1 · 03-14-2016, 12:49 PM

Alvin and Sergio, please don't say to loudly that collecting firearms has never been an investment........my wife may hear this!!!!

I too agree that it's fun.

Ron

MikeP · 03-14-2016, 01:26 PM

I was buying a lot of my 1st guns in 64 while in high school.

Lugers were getting close to a hundred bucks for nice ones.
P-38s $25-30.
NIB RR 1911A1-$25.00
Hundred bucks was a lot of money.

alvin · 03-15-2016, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by luger.parabellum

I agree, collecting firearms is not, and probably has never been an investment, also because the "liquidation" of our beloved guns may be quite a big problem, still I agree it's fun.

That's one reason investing into ten 5K-dollar guns being slightly better than investing into one 50K-dollar gun. Although the total value being same, $5K gun is much easier to move around, there are lots of sellers and buyers. $50K item, ,,, well, depends on how to look at that, it's also easy to handle - just send it to an auction house. But it's hard to liquidate by an individual collector. At least, that's the situation on US market *C&R semi-auto context.

Arizona Slim · 03-15-2016, 09:18 AM

"That's one reason investing into ten 5K-dollar guns being slightly better than investing into one 50K-dollar gun. Although the total value being same, $5K gun is much easier to move around, there are lots of sellers and buyers. $50K item, ,,, well, depends on how to look at that, it's also easy to handle - just send it to an auction house. But it's hard to liquidate by an individual collector. At least, that's the situation on US market *C&R semi-auto context."

Alvin

That's probably true Alvin but my level of expertise in the field of Lugers is so weak that even if I had the money to put into high end guns I would be hesitant to do so as the quality of the fakes and boosted guns that are out there are getting so good that even the experts on our forum don't always agree.

Lon

Sonofeugene · 03-16-2016, 02:15 PM

My father obtained his Luger (polished a bit and reblued but all numbers matching except the mag) for 35 dollars in 1948. The seller threw in a box of ammo.

How things have changed.

kurusu · 03-16-2016, 03:34 PM

I was 7 years old in 64, all I had back then was cap pistols. Some of them I still have.

alvin · 03-16-2016, 04:45 PM

Imagining this: in year 2066 (50 years from now), my grandson inherited my gun, could tell "Alvin paid $$ on it 50 years ago. Not a great investment, but probably better than turning it into packs of Marlboros for burning". He will appreciate me

conehammer · 03-23-2016, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

I bet even lower was Japanese rifles. Nice one was $15. Average one was virtually free. Some collectors accumulated 1,000+ Japanese rifles. How much is a nice Japanese rifle nowadays?

In some cases it they were free. When I was in high school during the 60s my interest in firearms was well known. My Physics teacher gave me a great condition type 99 rifle complete with monopod, dust cover and completely intact Imperial Mum.

I don't recall how he actually gave it to me, whether it was in the parking lot or if I came by his home, I remember his wife as a friendly person who greeted us students who were always showing up. We all really liked that teacher- he was "one of us"; tough but fair. Believe it or not this was sunny California in the mid to late 60s.

I have it still....

Jerry

ithacaartist · 03-23-2016, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by conehammer

My Physics teacher ...

I had a great physics teacher, too! He never turned me away on a pop-in. Sadly, we lost him about 15 years ago.

Olle · 03-24-2016, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvin

Imagining this: in year 2066 (50 years from now), my grandson inherited my gun, could tell "Alvin paid $$ on it 50 years ago. Not a great investment, but probably better than turning it into packs of Marlboros for burning". He will appreciate me

You can also imagine this: "In 2066, my grandson inherited this gun and took it straight to the pawn shop and traded it for the latest Xbox".

It happens more often than you think, and I have made several good purchases that way. A veteran or gun collector passes away, and the family sells the guns to buy a new dishwasher, go on a Florida vacation or do whatever they think is more interesting than looking at an old gun. It won't be an investment, unless you educate those that may take over the collection one day.

Arizona Slim · 03-24-2016, 09:13 AM

Exactly my fear too Olle, and probably most of the other forum members as well. At this time no one in my family has an interest in firearms, although I have tried to impress on my son that my collection of Lugers, their accessories and other firearms in my collection have a certain amount of value, he politely listens but his passion is in restoring old Mustangs so I don't think he absorbs much of what I am trying to impress on him. I keep a journal of everything I have with as an accurate description as I can, date of purchase, amount paid and an estimate of the value if it is different from what I paid and hope for the best.

Lon

03-13-2016, 04:07 PM	#1
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	1964 Auction & Prices Realized Shortly after serving my time in the military there was a local firearm auction that I attended. Here is a partial listing with prices realized, thought this might be interesting. Savage over&Under M2x .22-410 $45.00 Winchester Lever M1892 38-40 37.50 Winchester auto 1905 .35 S.I. 35.00 Winchester pump M97 12ga. 75.00 Winchester lever M94 .30-30 48.00 Winchester lever M1873 .22 short 45.00 Remington pump M1912 .22 Rem Spl. 24.00 Winchester Lever 1895 7.62mm 62.50 Remington auto M241 .22 L.R. 52.00 Winchester pump M12 16 gauge 80.00 Rem bolt w/w/k scope 721 .270 85.00 Springfield sporter bolt 1903 30.06 72.00 Winchester auto m1905 .35 57.00 Springfield bolt M1903 30-06 62.00 Winchester pump M42 .410 47.00 Winchester lever M1873 44-40 52.50 Winchester auto m63 .22 l.r. 60.00 Browning auto M Sweet 16 16ga 50.00 Beretta m948 .22 l.r. 27.50 LUGER ARTILLERY 9mm 87.50 LUGER ARTILLERY 1917 9mm 56.00 Llama 9mm 35.00 S&W M&P 38 s&w 32.00 Colt DA M1902 .45 65.00 Colt Pol. Positive 385 pl. 27.00 Colt square back M1851 36 Navy $125.00 I won three or four of these including one of the Lugers but wish I knew then what I know now. Lon

03-13-2016, 06:14 PM	#2
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,355 Times in 2,041 Posts	Seems they didn't think much of lugers in 1964! I believe the market has improved. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

03-14-2016, 11:39 AM	#7
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	I agree, collecting firearms is not, and probably has never been an investment, also because the "liquidation" of our beloved guns may be quite a big problem, still I agree it's fun. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

03-16-2016, 04:45 PM	#14
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Imagining this: in year 2066 (50 years from now), my grandson inherited my gun, could tell "Alvin paid $$ on it 50 years ago. Not a great investment, but probably better than turning it into packs of Marlboros for burning". He will appreciate me Attached Thumbnails Last edited by alvin; 03-16-2016 at 05:58 PM.

03-13-2016, 06:37 PM	#3
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	I bet even lower was Japanese rifles. Nice one was $15. Average one was virtually free. Some collectors accumulated 1,000+ Japanese rifles. How much is a nice Japanese rifle nowadays?

03-13-2016, 07:45 PM	#4
rolandtg User Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Hill Country Posts: 479 Thanks: 388 Thanked 265 Times in 114 Posts	According to this inflation calculator http://www.dollartimes.com/calculators/inflation.htm $1.00 in 1964 had the same buying power as $7.65 in 2016. Annual inflation over this period was 3.99%.

03-13-2016, 08:52 PM	#5
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	In this rate, regular 1917 LP08 by inflation rate should be $56 x 7.65 = $428.40, putting population increased 100% since then (so number of collectors also increased 100%), $428.40 x 2 = $856.80. The gap between this number and current market is big, what's not been put into the formula yet? I bet there are still $856.80 LP08s today, but it has to be a pure shooter. Retro back, was that $56 LP08 in the list sold as a pure shooter?? If not, say, if that LP08 is a nice collector item, the only way to interpret this price gap being wealth indeed increased over these years. At absolutely lower income, people don't have much money left after covering living cost. Whatever left decided non-daily-essential items price, including LP08. Since real income increased since 1964, the price of collectible item could increase higher than inflation, not bound to inflation rate, due to its supply is pretty much fixed. Is this sustainable in next 30 years? Probably these will be more related with inflation rate. That's my feeling, due to the price is not low anymore. But if real wealth indeed increases again in next generation, C&R could increase higher than inflation rate again. So, depends.

03-14-2016, 08:49 AM	#6
alvin User Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: US Posts: 3,843 Thanks: 132 Thanked 729 Times in 438 Posts	Collecting guns is still a hobby, hard to treat it as investment. I bet buying blue chip ticker symbols such as "PM" and "KO" are better investment. Those are low risk too, liquidation is never being a problem, and they pay dividend. But no fun.

03-14-2016, 12:49 PM	#8
roadkill1 Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Virginia Posts: 127 Thanks: 166 Thanked 129 Times in 63 Posts	Alvin and Sergio, please don't say to loudly that collecting firearms has never been an investment........my wife may hear this!!!! I too agree that it's fun. Ron

03-14-2016, 01:26 PM	#9
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	I was buying a lot of my 1st guns in 64 while in high school. Lugers were getting close to a hundred bucks for nice ones. P-38s $25-30. NIB RR 1911A1-$25.00 Hundred bucks was a lot of money.

03-15-2016, 09:18 AM	#11
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	"That's one reason investing into ten 5K-dollar guns being slightly better than investing into one 50K-dollar gun. Although the total value being same, $5K gun is much easier to move around, there are lots of sellers and buyers. $50K item, ,,, well, depends on how to look at that, it's also easy to handle - just send it to an auction house. But it's hard to liquidate by an individual collector. At least, that's the situation on US market *C&R semi-auto context." Alvin That's probably true Alvin but my level of expertise in the field of Lugers is so weak that even if I had the money to put into high end guns I would be hesitant to do so as the quality of the fakes and boosted guns that are out there are getting so good that even the experts on our forum don't always agree. Lon

03-16-2016, 02:15 PM	#12
Sonofeugene User Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 157 Thanks: 1 Thanked 118 Times in 64 Posts	My father obtained his Luger (polished a bit and reblued but all numbers matching except the mag) for 35 dollars in 1948. The seller threw in a box of ammo. How things have changed.

03-16-2016, 03:34 PM	#13
kurusu User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 2,679 Thanked 930 Times in 509 Posts	I was 7 years old in 64, all I had back then was cap pistols. Some of them I still have.

03-24-2016, 09:13 AM	#18
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	Exactly my fear too Olle, and probably most of the other forum members as well. At this time no one in my family has an interest in firearms, although I have tried to impress on my son that my collection of Lugers, their accessories and other firearms in my collection have a certain amount of value, he politely listens but his passion is in restoring old Mustangs so I don't think he absorbs much of what I am trying to impress on him. I keep a journal of everything I have with as an accurate description as I can, date of purchase, amount paid and an estimate of the value if it is different from what I paid and hope for the best. Lon