Please help identify

tallestsniper · 02-08-2016, 12:00 AM

Claimed to be a battlefield pickup, I aquired this from a vets son. Id love some history lessons on what i have as well as a estimated value if you could help a newbee out

DonVoigt · 02-08-2016, 08:24 AM

tailsniper, welcome to the board.

Your luger may be a "battlefield" pick up, but it has been worked on(polished, wire wheeled, ??) after, and rounded off the edges quite a bit. The chamber has a non standard number marking.

We could maybe tell more about it with a picture of the number on the front of the frame, the left side and right side of the chamber too. Magazine may be the best part if it is in better shape than the pistol, picture of any markings on it and close up of the base is in order.

As it is, it has little residual value due to condition and modification.

Read the stickys in the new collector forum for more info that will be of interest.

DavidJayUden · 02-08-2016, 08:26 AM

We'll probably need lots more photos to piece this one together, but the toggle assy. is definitely from a 4" WW1 Erfurt P08. The upper receiver is probably from either that Erfurt or some artillery model, and has had the date removed and a serial number added tot he top.
The toggle assy. appears to be a very loose fit. Have you fired it?
Good lighted photos of all markings and about every square inch of this one will help.
Value? I'm just guessing a bit south of $500.
dju

Sergio Natali · 02-08-2016, 02:19 PM

Welcome to this LUGER forum.

As per the previous posts I think it's a bit of a mixmaster with an Erfurt toggle.
Heavily sanded down perhaps to take off the rust I wouldn't shoot it.

Best.

kurusu · 02-08-2016, 04:16 PM

I've got two questions. A pick up from which battlefield? And how many years after the battle?

tallestsniper · 02-08-2016, 10:34 PM

DavidJayUden · 02-08-2016, 11:03 PM

Not a whole lot to add, but it seems like the effects of weather, be it wind and sand or whatever, have simply smoothed the surface, not human sanding. All mating surfaces are simply worn down.
Any further info. on where or the circumstances of the "pick-up"?
It seems fitting to wipe it down with light oil, free any stuck surfaces, and then let it live out the rest of days as an ornament.
dju

tallestsniper · 02-08-2016, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidJayUden

Not a whole lot to add, but it seems like the effects of weather, be it wind and sand or whatever, have simply smoothed the surface, not human sanding. All mating surfaces are simply worn down.
Any further info. on where or the circumstances of the "pick-up"?
It seems fitting to wipe it down with light oil, free any stuck surfaces, and then let it live out the rest of days as an ornament.
dju

Oil applied as soon as i got it. The son of vet said "My dad brought this back from the war". I wish I had more info, but he is in late stages of altzhiemers. The family is liberal to the core, and wanted it out of the house. It came in an old cigar box. Pistol was rusted and pitted, all i did was oil bath and rub with cotton cloth. I did not sand it, but looks like someone might have in the past. I really appreciate all your guys help and if you have more info, im all ears

alanint · 02-09-2016, 10:01 AM

All acceptance marks visible would indicate the entire pistol is Erfurt. Someone incorrectly added the frame's serial number over the chamber to make it "match", (at least in their own mind). This is a tough call between purposely sanded or somehow weathered. It would have to have been left somewhere where heavy wind and sand action worked on it for years, or perhaps it tumbled in the surf for a couple of years prior to being found and put back into service, at which time the chamber number was added.
This looks much more like a primitive third world find, rather than a battlefield pickup.

Olle · 02-09-2016, 10:48 AM

I seriously doubt that this one is a WWII trophy. I have seen some battlefield pickups like this, but they came from more modern conflicts like Vietnam and Afghanistan (didn't Ed Tinker post one not too long ago?). The condition reminds me of the Chinese issue Broomhandles, so it could also be an imported surplus gun.

MikeP · 02-12-2016, 03:01 PM

Good shooter.
It ain't going to blow up.

I got my 1st Luger at age of 12. A BYF 41-zero finish, the bore was worn almost smooth as were the grips.
I always wondered how a piece could get in that condition. It functioned fine and was as accurate as most for practical purposes.
We had several in the foreign weapons pool at Ft Bragg that SF weapons trainees fired a lot.
Even they were not worn that badly.

aldo35 · 02-12-2016, 04:08 PM

I couldn't make out the chamber date/numbers, however it had the recess area for an artillery sight. This suggests it was rebarreled sometime after WW1. Does it have smooth rear toggle?
Aldo35

Arizona Slim · 02-12-2016, 05:29 PM

A lot of Erfurt Lugers had the recess cut into the frame to accomodate the Artillery rear sight but were not used as Artillery's, don't know why. I have several Erfurt Lugers with that recess and none have been been re-barreled .

Lon

Lugerdoc · 02-12-2016, 06:05 PM

I have read, but don't remember where, that when the government arsenal at Erfurt intoduced the LPO8 in 1914, DWM objected, seeing another source of revenue for them, saying that they had only contracted to have the government produce the standard model PO8. If you look closely at the eagle proofing on the right side of LPO8 barrels on DWM LPO8s, you will see an Erfurt eagle. Since Erfurt also had many barrel extentions already made for the LPO8s, they continued to use them with 4" barrels. TH

Sergio Natali · 02-13-2016, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olle

I seriously doubt that this one is a WWII trophy. I have seen some battlefield pickups like this, but they came from more modern conflicts like Vietnam and Afghanistan (didn't Ed Tinker post one not too long ago?). The condition reminds me of the Chinese issue Broomhandles, so it could also be an imported surplus gun.

I agree with Olle, I've seen several real battlefields pickups in the past, but their tipical worn out look and rust/neglect marks were very different I think.

Arizona Slim · 02-13-2016, 12:06 PM

More info on the relief cut into the receiver on Erfurt Lugers as provided by "The Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols" Page 715.

"As late as 1916 someone must have had the idea to standardize the receiver for the short and long 08 pistol. Until this date only the receivers meant to be used for the long 08 pistols were made with a relief cut over the front of the receiver ring. An amendment dated November 1916 was made to add the relief cut for all receivers"

Lon

02-08-2016, 12:00 AM	#1
tallestsniper New User Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Please help identify Claimed to be a battlefield pickup, I aquired this from a vets son. Id love some history lessons on what i have as well as a estimated value if you could help a newbee out Last edited by tallestsniper; 02-08-2016 at 12:57 AM. Reason: added pictures

02-08-2016, 08:24 AM	#2
DonVoigt User Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: near Charlotte NC Posts: 4,681 Thanks: 1,443 Thanked 4,355 Times in 2,041 Posts	tailsniper, welcome to the board. Your luger may be a "battlefield" pick up, but it has been worked on(polished, wire wheeled, ??) after, and rounded off the edges quite a bit. The chamber has a non standard number marking. We could maybe tell more about it with a picture of the number on the front of the frame, the left side and right side of the chamber too. Magazine may be the best part if it is in better shape than the pistol, picture of any markings on it and close up of the base is in order. As it is, it has little residual value due to condition and modification. Read the stickys in the new collector forum for more info that will be of interest. __________________ 03man(Don Voigt); Luger student and collector. Looking for DWM side plate: 69 ; Dreyse 1907 pistol K.S. Gendarmerie

02-08-2016, 02:19 PM	#4
Sergio Natali User Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Somewhere in Northern Italy Posts: 2,646 Thanks: 1,087 Thanked 1,783 Times in 1,007 Posts	Welcome to this LUGER forum. As per the previous posts I think it's a bit of a mixmaster with an Erfurt toggle. Heavily sanded down perhaps to take off the rust I wouldn't shoot it. Best. __________________ "Originality can't be restored and should be at the top of any collector's priority list.

02-09-2016, 10:01 AM	#9
alanint User Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Marco Island, Florida Posts: 4,867 Thanks: 1,685 Thanked 1,917 Times in 1,193 Posts	All acceptance marks visible would indicate the entire pistol is Erfurt. Someone incorrectly added the frame's serial number over the chamber to make it "match", (at least in their own mind). This is a tough call between purposely sanded or somehow weathered. It would have to have been left somewhere where heavy wind and sand action worked on it for years, or perhaps it tumbled in the surf for a couple of years prior to being found and put back into service, at which time the chamber number was added. This looks much more like a primitive third world find, rather than a battlefield pickup. Last edited by alanint; 02-13-2016 at 09:09 AM.

02-12-2016, 04:08 PM	#12
aldo35 User Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Northern GA Posts: 390 Thanks: 2,298 Thanked 184 Times in 91 Posts	Erfurt Luger I couldn't make out the chamber date/numbers, however it had the recess area for an artillery sight. This suggests it was rebarreled sometime after WW1. Does it have smooth rear toggle? Aldo35

02-08-2016, 08:26 AM	#3
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	We'll probably need lots more photos to piece this one together, but the toggle assy. is definitely from a 4" WW1 Erfurt P08. The upper receiver is probably from either that Erfurt or some artillery model, and has had the date removed and a serial number added tot he top. The toggle assy. appears to be a very loose fit. Have you fired it? Good lighted photos of all markings and about every square inch of this one will help. Value? I'm just guessing a bit south of $500. dju

02-08-2016, 04:16 PM	#5
kurusu User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 1,225 Thanks: 2,679 Thanked 930 Times in 509 Posts	I've got two questions. A pick up from which battlefield? And how many years after the battle?

02-08-2016, 10:34 PM	#6
tallestsniper New User Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 3 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts

02-08-2016, 11:03 PM	#7
DavidJayUden Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 4,047 Thanks: 578 Thanked 1,414 Times in 887 Posts	Not a whole lot to add, but it seems like the effects of weather, be it wind and sand or whatever, have simply smoothed the surface, not human sanding. All mating surfaces are simply worn down. Any further info. on where or the circumstances of the "pick-up"? It seems fitting to wipe it down with light oil, free any stuck surfaces, and then let it live out the rest of days as an ornament. dju

02-09-2016, 10:48 AM	#10
Olle User Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Tennessee Posts: 1,149 Thanks: 159 Thanked 664 Times in 318 Posts	I seriously doubt that this one is a WWII trophy. I have seen some battlefield pickups like this, but they came from more modern conflicts like Vietnam and Afghanistan (didn't Ed Tinker post one not too long ago?). The condition reminds me of the Chinese issue Broomhandles, so it could also be an imported surplus gun.

02-12-2016, 03:01 PM	#11
MikeP User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: ILL Posts: 686 Thanks: 36 Thanked 452 Times in 198 Posts	Good shooter. It ain't going to blow up. I got my 1st Luger at age of 12. A BYF 41-zero finish, the bore was worn almost smooth as were the grips. I always wondered how a piece could get in that condition. It functioned fine and was as accurate as most for practical purposes. We had several in the foreign weapons pool at Ft Bragg that SF weapons trainees fired a lot. Even they were not worn that badly.

02-12-2016, 05:29 PM	#13
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	A lot of Erfurt Lugers had the recess cut into the frame to accomodate the Artillery rear sight but were not used as Artillery's, don't know why. I have several Erfurt Lugers with that recess and none have been been re-barreled . Lon

02-12-2016, 06:05 PM	#14
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	I have read, but don't remember where, that when the government arsenal at Erfurt intoduced the LPO8 in 1914, DWM objected, seeing another source of revenue for them, saying that they had only contracted to have the government produce the standard model PO8. If you look closely at the eagle proofing on the right side of LPO8 barrels on DWM LPO8s, you will see an Erfurt eagle. Since Erfurt also had many barrel extentions already made for the LPO8s, they continued to use them with 4" barrels. TH __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

02-13-2016, 12:06 PM	#16
Arizona Slim Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Illinois Posts: 706 Thanks: 1,026 Thanked 409 Times in 225 Posts	More info on the relief cut into the receiver on Erfurt Lugers as provided by "The Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols" Page 715. "As late as 1916 someone must have had the idea to standardize the receiver for the short and long 08 pistol. Until this date only the receivers meant to be used for the long 08 pistols were made with a relief cut over the front of the receiver ring. An amendment dated November 1916 was made to add the relief cut for all receivers" Lon