A Mystery Craftsman Among Us!

John Sabato · 10-02-2002, 03:42 PM

If you go to the new Member Gallery pages from the homepage of this site:

http://www.lugerforum.com

-- you will find a new photo album that illustrates an American Eagle Luger and an Ideal Stock. What is different about this Luger/stock combination is that the stock is BRAND NEW. Here is a sample from that album just to whet your appetite...

It was painstakingly created by the hands of a master craftsman who is a member of this forum. He created it because he decided he would never be able to own the genuine article to accompany his American Eagle (which he also refinished himself)... The creation of this masterpiece has taken several months...

I have been privileged to follow the creation of this completely unique Luger accessory from the outset... The owner of a genuine Ideal Stock generously permitted this craftsman to possess his prized piece during the recreation effort... He too shall remain nameless, at least for the present.

The Creator of this new Ideal Stock and I thought it would be interesting if the membership tried to guess who he is. I will reveal a new hint every couple of days until his identity is made public...

The membership is invited to present their guesses in this thread...

Good Luck to all! [img]smile.gif[/img]

P.S. NO, the stock is not for sale! [img]frown.gif[/img]

Edward Tinker · 10-02-2002, 03:47 PM

Does he live in Arizona?

And it is really nice, a beaut!

John Sabato · 10-02-2002, 03:51 PM

Let me save you some time... he lives east of the Mississippi River...

Edward Tinker · 10-02-2002, 03:54 PM

Well, that eliminates two machinist guys I know, so now I'm stumped... [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Brandon · 10-02-2002, 03:55 PM

Well,
First of all I'd like to tell Mr. X that his work is very VERY good!!!

Second of all,
John Give us our first hint!!!

Regards,Brandon

John Sabato · 10-02-2002, 04:05 PM

Nice try Brandon... the first hint was that he doesn't live west of the Mississippi! [img]biggrin.gif[/img]

Brandon · 10-02-2002, 04:09 PM

You know You're not making this easy!!!

... [img]biggrin.gif[/img] , Brandon

Aaron · 10-02-2002, 04:11 PM

Why do I see "This page cannot be displayed" when I click on the website?

John Sabato · 10-02-2002, 04:14 PM

Sorry all,

That is because my fast fingers mistyped the URL... try the link now that I have corrected my error...

unspellable · 10-02-2002, 05:06 PM

My guess is that it wasn't me. Does this make mine the first correct guess?

Thor · 10-02-2002, 05:11 PM

Is his initials A.B. ?

Doubs · 10-02-2002, 05:32 PM

Is his first name Tommy?

Lugerdoc · 10-02-2002, 07:37 PM

John, Nice metal work, but the leather is too dark & soft to be mistaken for an original. Do the arms open up like an original? If I knew the maker, I'd never tell. Tom H.

Navy · 10-02-2002, 09:31 PM

Truly magnificent craftsmanship. Now, how does the maker keep it from being passed off as an original after he is long dead and buried? Hate to be a party pooper but I feel that mine is a legit question.

Tom A,
Who has been stung by a forum member's idea of making a copy of something.. and YOU know who I am talking about! I consider you owe me $400 but whats money among friends? Only money; honor is far more important.

Alain · 10-02-2002, 10:43 PM

Maybe Schwob has something to do with this nice recreation

Brandon · 10-02-2002, 10:58 PM

Alain,
I was thinking the exact same thing!!!

Hey who has "The Shadow"'s e-mail address Maybe he knows!

... [img]biggrin.gif[/img] ,Brandon

Carl · 10-02-2002, 11:21 PM

Martz?

Ron Wood · 10-02-2002, 11:57 PM

Tom A,

QUOTE]Now, how does the maker keep it from being passed off as an original after he is long dead and buried? Hate to be a party pooper but I feel that mine is a legit question.[/QUOTE]

You have posed a very good question, and as you stated, a totally legitimate question.

I feel that this craftsman fulfilled his obligation to assure that it will not be Ã¢??passed off as an original after he is long dead and buriedÃ¢?Â. This individual has crafted a truly outstanding piece of work, and to his credit (God bless him) he has incorporated a number of subtle (and a couple of not so subtle) differences from the original in his recreation to assist future collectors from such subterfuge.

I appreciate the need to be honest, but it is the responsibility of the purchaser to do his Ã¢??homeworkÃ¢?Â before buying anything of relative rarity. If in the future, as now, an individual obtains a reproduction or an outright Ã¢??fakeÃ¢?Â without doing the necessary research to authenticate it, then he will be a graduate of the Ã¢??school of hard knocksÃ¢?Â. All of us long time collectors have been stung (myself included, several times) and sometimes that is the best teacher.

If an individual expects to be Ã¢??spoon fedÃ¢?Â all the pitfalls of collecting, then he/she is either indifferent to the intricacies of the hobby, or not sufficiently motivated to do the research necessary not to be bamboozled. Several members of this Forum have sought the advice of others, and thus have avoided being taken. That is what everyone should do. A warning to all collectors, if you swim with sharks, donÃ¢??t bleed.

Tom, your point is well taken, you are not a party pooper. I hope your caution is heeded.

John Sabato · 10-03-2002, 07:23 AM

So far, the ONLY correct answer regarding the responsible personalities was made by Alain. schwob was the benefactor who allowed his original Ideal Stock to be measured and examined for the creation of this NEW masterpiece.

Ron Wood is also correct in his supposition that there are some distinct differences that will always allow future owners of this one-of-a-kind Luger accessory to know that they possess a copy and not an original...

Tom Armstrong's comments are right on target and these sentiments were considered during the construction of this stock. The 'body' of the holster was constructed from a leather coat that was purchased at a second hand store to give the leather it that aged look... It is much softer than the type of leather from which the original's were created, but still looks good.

Tom H. - Yes, the stock is fully functional-the 'trombone' is exactly like the original. The finish photographs well, but could easily be distinguished from an original.

All the rest of you are not even close with your guesses about who this craftsman is... this is turning into quite a mystery. I would have thought at least one of you might have guessed by now. There will be a new hint later today about his identity...

Feel free to ask other questions about the construction... I am sure the owner will provide me with the answers to any question you might ask via email, since he is watching the guessing game from lurk mode.

John Sabato · 10-03-2002, 07:31 AM

Just to set the record straight here... It wasn't ME... <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" />

10-02-2002, 03:42 PM	#1
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	A Mystery Craftsman Among Us! If you go to the new Member Gallery pages from the homepage of this site: http://www.lugerforum.com -- you will find a new photo album that illustrates an American Eagle Luger and an Ideal Stock. What is different about this Luger/stock combination is that the stock is BRAND NEW. Here is a sample from that album just to whet your appetite... It was painstakingly created by the hands of a master craftsman who is a member of this forum. He created it because he decided he would never be able to own the genuine article to accompany his American Eagle (which he also refinished himself)... The creation of this masterpiece has taken several months... I have been privileged to follow the creation of this completely unique Luger accessory from the outset... The owner of a genuine Ideal Stock generously permitted this craftsman to possess his prized piece during the recreation effort... He too shall remain nameless, at least for the present. The Creator of this new Ideal Stock and I thought it would be interesting if the membership tried to guess who he is. I will reveal a new hint every couple of days until his identity is made public... The membership is invited to present their guesses in this thread... Good Luck to all! [img]smile.gif[/img] P.S. NO, the stock is not for sale! [img]frown.gif[/img] __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-02-2002, 03:47 PM	#2
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Does he live in Arizona? And it is really nice, a beaut! __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-02-2002, 03:51 PM	#3
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Let me save you some time... he lives east of the Mississippi River... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-02-2002, 03:54 PM	#4
Edward Tinker Super Moderator Eternal Lifer LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: North of Spokane, WA Posts: 15,966 Thanks: 2,066 Thanked 4,595 Times in 2,116 Posts	Well, that eliminates two machinist guys I know, so now I'm stumped... [img]biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ Edward Tinker ************ Co-Author of Police Lugers - Co-Author of Simson Lugers Author of Veteran Bring Backs Vol I, Vol II, Vol III and Vol IV

10-02-2002, 04:05 PM	#6
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Nice try Brandon... the first hint was that he doesn't live west of the Mississippi! [img]biggrin.gif[/img] __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-02-2002, 03:55 PM	#5
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Well, First of all I'd like to tell Mr. X that his work is very VERY good!!! Second of all, John Give us our first hint!!! Regards,Brandon

10-02-2002, 04:09 PM	#7
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	You know You're not making this easy!!! ... [img]biggrin.gif[/img] , Brandon

10-02-2002, 04:11 PM	#8
Aaron Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vista, CA Posts: 1,008 Thanks: 0 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts	Why do I see "This page cannot be displayed" when I click on the website?

10-02-2002, 04:14 PM	#9
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Sorry all, That is because my fast fingers mistyped the URL... try the link now that I have corrected my error... __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-02-2002, 05:06 PM	#10
unspellable User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Iowa Posts: 768 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 11 Posts	My guess is that it wasn't me. Does this make mine the first correct guess?

10-02-2002, 05:11 PM	#11
Thor User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Rio Rancho, New Mexico Posts: 4,583 Thanks: 958 Thanked 970 Times in 276 Posts	Is his initials A.B. ? __________________ Thor's Luger Clinic http://members.rennlist.com/lugerman/ Ted Green (Thor Yaller Boots) 725 Western Hills Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124 915-526-8925 Email thor340@aol.com ----------------------------------- John3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

10-02-2002, 05:32 PM	#12
Doubs User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Byron, Georgia Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 819 Thanked 1,769 Times in 586 Posts	Is his first name Tommy?

10-02-2002, 07:37 PM	#13
Lugerdoc Patron LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: POB 398 St.Charles,MO. 63302 Posts: 5,089 Thanks: 6 Thanked 737 Times in 484 Posts	John, Nice metal work, but the leather is too dark & soft to be mistaken for an original. Do the arms open up like an original? If I knew the maker, I'd never tell. Tom H. __________________ Tom Heller POB 398 ST.Charles, MO. 63302 Tel 636-447-3006 lugerdoc@charter.net

10-02-2002, 09:31 PM	#14
Navy RIP Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Dc 'burbs in Virginia Posts: 2,482 Thanks: 0 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	Truly magnificent craftsmanship. Now, how does the maker keep it from being passed off as an original after he is long dead and buried? Hate to be a party pooper but I feel that mine is a legit question. Tom A, Who has been stung by a forum member's idea of making a copy of something.. and YOU know who I am talking about! I consider you owe me $400 but whats money among friends? Only money; honor is far more important.

10-02-2002, 10:43 PM	#15
Alain Banned Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: france Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Maybe Schwob has something to do with this nice recreation

10-02-2002, 10:58 PM	#16
Brandon User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Tennessee, USA Posts: 329 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Alain, I was thinking the exact same thing!!! Hey who has "The Shadow"'s e-mail address Maybe he knows! ... [img]biggrin.gif[/img] ,Brandon

10-02-2002, 11:21 PM	#17
Carl User Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Central PA Posts: 113 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 2 Posts	Martz?

10-02-2002, 11:57 PM	#18
Ron Wood Moderator 2010 LugerForum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Santa Teresa New Mexico just outside of the West Texas town of El Paso Posts: 7,040 Thanks: 1,106 Thanked 5,257 Times in 1,724 Posts	Tom A, QUOTE]Now, how does the maker keep it from being passed off as an original after he is long dead and buried? Hate to be a party pooper but I feel that mine is a legit question.[/QUOTE] You have posed a very good question, and as you stated, a totally legitimate question. I feel that this craftsman fulfilled his obligation to assure that it will not be Ã¢??passed off as an original after he is long dead and buriedÃ¢?Â. This individual has crafted a truly outstanding piece of work, and to his credit (God bless him) he has incorporated a number of subtle (and a couple of not so subtle) differences from the original in his recreation to assist future collectors from such subterfuge. I appreciate the need to be honest, but it is the responsibility of the purchaser to do his Ã¢??homeworkÃ¢?Â before buying anything of relative rarity. If in the future, as now, an individual obtains a reproduction or an outright Ã¢??fakeÃ¢?Â without doing the necessary research to authenticate it, then he will be a graduate of the Ã¢??school of hard knocksÃ¢?Â. All of us long time collectors have been stung (myself included, several times) and sometimes that is the best teacher. If an individual expects to be Ã¢??spoon fedÃ¢?Â all the pitfalls of collecting, then he/she is either indifferent to the intricacies of the hobby, or not sufficiently motivated to do the research necessary not to be bamboozled. Several members of this Forum have sought the advice of others, and thus have avoided being taken. That is what everyone should do. A warning to all collectors, if you swim with sharks, donÃ¢??t bleed. Tom, your point is well taken, you are not a party pooper. I hope your caution is heeded. __________________ If it's made after 1918...it's a reproduction

10-03-2002, 07:23 AM	#19
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	So far, the ONLY correct answer regarding the responsible personalities was made by Alain. schwob was the benefactor who allowed his original Ideal Stock to be measured and examined for the creation of this NEW masterpiece. Ron Wood is also correct in his supposition that there are some distinct differences that will always allow future owners of this one-of-a-kind Luger accessory to know that they possess a copy and not an original... Tom Armstrong's comments are right on target and these sentiments were considered during the construction of this stock. The 'body' of the holster was constructed from a leather coat that was purchased at a second hand store to give the leather it that aged look... It is much softer than the type of leather from which the original's were created, but still looks good. Tom H. - Yes, the stock is fully functional-the 'trombone' is exactly like the original. The finish photographs well, but could easily be distinguished from an original. All the rest of you are not even close with your guesses about who this craftsman is... this is turning into quite a mystery. I would have thought at least one of you might have guessed by now. There will be a new hint later today about his identity... Feel free to ask other questions about the construction... I am sure the owner will provide me with the answers to any question you might ask via email, since he is watching the guessing game from lurk mode. __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*

10-03-2002, 07:31 AM	#20
John Sabato Lifer Lifetime Forum Patron Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: The Capital of the Free World Posts: 10,156 Thanks: 3,003 Thanked 2,308 Times in 1,098 Posts	Just to set the record straight here... It wasn't ME... <img src="graemlins/roflmao.gif" border="0" alt="[hiha]" /> __________________ regards, -John S "...We hold these truths to be self-evident that ALL men are created EQUAL *and are endowed by their Creator* with certain UNALIENABLE* rights, and among these are life, LIBERTY, and the pursuit of happiness..."*